I remember some time ago some discussion about collapsing batons for SD. IIR the answer was no, they're not good options for SD. Is this still prevailing opinion ? Do police still use them for compliance duty ? Do civilians use them for SD, possibly "last ditch" type SD ? No question a gun is best option, and I'm not trying to equivocate for batons or anything, I'm just wondering what is the current expert opinion on collapsing batons, or striking tools more broadly, pros or cons between types, etc., for SD in particular. I've always liked them, don't know why, and never owned one. I'm just curious for an update.

The problem with collapsing batons comes from their lack of mass. They may work but they are just as likely to just piss someone off.

They are also bulky to carry around collapsed.

I love baseball! I always carry a ball, my old fielder's glove, and a Louisville slugger behind the seat of my truck just in case I run into an opportunity for a game.

It also provides a minimal amount of cover for any possible interpretation of the baseball bat as a weapon. Hasn't happened yet, but worth considering.

Being over 70 and a disabled veteran, I also have a couple of walking sticks and canes. Those have come in handy more than once for more than maintaining my balance.

Baton = impact weapon. Walking cane = old guy with serious arthritis. Louisville slugger = sports fan.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

The ASP 21” baton sucks. Sucks donkey balls. They are good at three things:
1. Scratching under your body armor
2. Reaching across the police car and moving an AC vent or the passenger mirror
3. Holding a snakes head down before you “re-home” him to a beheading outside the presence of witnesses.

They don’t have enough weight to actually do anything besides piss off already aggravated humans.

They bend. (I broke two ina career)

They will, when used, impart grave or permanent bodily injuries-which equates to deadly force. Even when you’ve had their training..people move and you wind up whacking an elbow or knee and boom-lawsuit.

Instant karma, send me an email with your address and I will send you one of mine from my police career. I don’t carry one for all the reasons I listed. I carry OC and my gun.

If I can spray a dog trying to eat me-I’m good. If some whack job tries to open or reach into my car I can spray him(looks a lot better to the jury to spray someone than shoot him-or beat the shit out of him with a baton-if you use one that’s what it turns into)

The PR24 or a straight wooden or weighted nylon baton was a much better tool. But it always looks bad when you go upside someone with a baton. I have used both. And the older models were better but were gotten rid of because of “optics” I could hit you once or twice with a PR24 and it ended the altercation, whereas the expandable baton usually went on for several minutes or until someone else sprayed the guy or tackled him.

To add to the disbelief, my old agency issued some type of POLYMER collapsing baton. Thankfully we could also carry a PR24 for when we actually needed to whack someone.

Pepper spray is my recommendation as well.

I think it goes without saying that a full-size baton is far superior to a collapsible, but could it be said that a collapsible is better than nothing at all? Much like a .22 in the hand beats the .44 you left at home.

quote:

but could it be said that a collapsible is better than nothing at all?

Maybe better than nothing at all, but there are far better options available out there, so I don't see the choice being baton or nothing. I don't even carry one on duty...no way would I carry one when I'm off. As suggested above...OC and a gun are the way to go.

OC is lighter, more compact to carry, and more effective. It doesn't require the same degree of training and physical ability to deploy it effectively, and as a general rule there is far less liability associated with it's use. You start beating one someone with a stick, and you can reach the level of lethal force very quickly.

No, they haven’t improved since you checked last!

ASP batons suck. Monadnock brand are better, especially with the screw in "weighted tip". But still arent good. I have backed down a few guys by snapping one out(looks/sounds impressive). Bent one on a guy once. Really their only benefit is its on your belt and handy. Straight sticks (WOOD) are much much better. But when wrestling with someone they get in the way, fall out and hurt when you fall on that side where you sling it. Plus when sticks come out everyone gets hit except the bad guy. At the end of my career, I settled on a 14 inch cocobolo short billie in my sap pocket. A sgt from OPD made it for me. Great compromise. Most sticks are illegal in many jurisdictions. If you want an impact weapon, get a fighting cane.

Hickory is your friend. It wont collapse, though.
Clint tested and approved.

I was probably the one that started that thread on collapsing batons. What I got from that thread was a resounding NO. Went with pepper spray.

If one is stuck on a collapsable, then the choice must be the Peacekeeper RCB. Like an ASP, but not a toy. Thicker, heavier, and weighted at the tip. It’ll do much more damage and be much more effective than the ASP.

https://peacekeeperproducts.co...ges/choosing-the-rcb

And a gentle reminder to check your local laws… batons aren’t legal everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
The ASP 21” baton sucks. Sucks donkey balls. They are good at three things:
1. Scratching under your body armor
2. Reaching across the police car and moving an AC vent or the passenger mirror
3. Holding a snakes head down before you “re-home” him to a beheading outside the presence of witnesses.

Pretty much this.

I will say that there are a handful of people out there with specialized training who are able to effectively use collapsible batons as a tool for stuff like joint lock/pressure point control techniques. You can see nifty demonstration videos online. But that requires a large investment in training and practice, which nearly all folks won't have (or even have access to).

If you're not one of those high-speed baton-fu expert folks, and you're planning to just rely on them for blunt impact/pain compliance purposes, collapsible batons are nigh-useless to carry for self defense purposes.

I carry one of these because I'm required to carry an "intermediate weapon" while working. It is worthless except to reach things/places as described above, to keep the bosses happy that I'm carrying it, or the extraordinarily rare occasion-- like, twice in the past 15 years-- I've had to "rake" the broken glass out of a frame.

My other option at work is OC, which has worked much better for me. Problem is, it also works much better ON me, so.

Friends and family get the OC recommendation, even in locales where a baton is an option. They also get a recommendation to always have a Plan B when the OC doesn't work.

So basically what all the folks are saying in this thread is that collapsible batons are useless being employed against pretty much everyone besides Nancy Kerrigan...

When I feel the need for an impact weapon, I carry a beaver tail sap. It's effective no matter what you hit. When traveling, a hickory cane has been useful in the past, four many things. I even propped one against a door once as a lock/brace against forcing.

They make a pretty good yawara stick when closed but are lacking as a baton. Nothing beats a PR24 for bring a lasting Owie! to the fight.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
So basically what all the folks are saying in this thread is that collapsible batons are useless being employed against pretty much everyone besides Nancy Kerrigan...

One of the reasons they became popular was the "collapsing" angle, because straight sticks just got in the way sometimes.

The other reason they became popular is because bad people sustained fewer semi-serious injuries because of them, compared to classic straight batons or them fancy PR-24s like T.J. Hooker liked to throw.

Yes, the latter-- they're not as effective as straight stick-- was actually a selling point to some administrators.

Don't get me started on the "lightweight" versions.

I have probably a half-dozen versions that my employer gave me because it was better than the last one (lightweight? steel? Longer? Shorter?) and they're all now in the same box in the garage.

When I was issued one, oh so many years ago, I thought it was a great improvement over my pr24. Then I used it once. A guy had one of our small officers in a clinch. Didn't have room to shoot him, so I wound up and hit him on the back of the thigh with the Asp. He said ouch. long story short, we bumrushed the guy and taught him some manners.
When I went off that night, I took it off my belt and dropped it in the bottom of my locker.

Mike nailed it. They are also helpful to hit the intercom button just before a sallyport when you park too far from the intercom.

For serious, I have had a baton for years and have not used it for any serious purpose. For a citizen, I'd be hard-pressed to find a place where an expandable baton would be a good option. They suck defensively, you have no formal training to defend yourself in court and a strike to the wrong zone is commonly viewed as lethal force. OC is a crowd pleaser and not a bad intermediate option while you didi mao.