I still reading the bible for the first time. I've finished Exodus and starting Leviticus. The study bible includes many references to the original word in hebrew.

Question: after I finish reading the bible, is there any pragmatic and/or spiritual value in reading the OT in the original, biblical Hebrew? Or the NT in the original Koine(?) Greek? Or is that only really of value to theology students?

I will continue to study the bible, join study groups, join a church, be a member of a congregation. But I don't have any intentions of leading study groups or ministering in any fashion. I'm a member, not a leader. Is just reading and studying the ESV good enough? Or do most people eventually read the original hebrew and greek texts?

I do plan to learn latin. I've always wanted to be able to read latin whenever I encounter it in public places and such.

With the many commentaries and resources available today, I do not see the need. I think you are better off picking someone who has studied it to follow. Everything has been interpreted by someone already, you just need to find the one you trust to read. I know people who know both languages and I rarely have anything to ask them that I cannot find in resources.

If you get the unabridged version of Kittel, it will give you more background on word use than you need.
https://www.logos.com/product/...e-new-testament-tdnt

The Bible apps like Logos and Olive Tree have pretty of resources available to utilize.

There is an interim step: Bible with strong's concordance. Here is a link to Romans 3 for an online NASB with strong's concordance. Let's use Rom 3:19 as an example:


Then say that you became interested in the word accountable so Strong's G5267 leads you to hypodikos:


I've had some interesting personal readings doing this. That's my level of interest as far as Hebrew and Greek. Perhaps that scratches the OP's itch too.

Unless you have access to original manuscripts, many versions available are ALREADY translated by people many years after the original. Each translation is based on that person's ideas and perceptions of the version THEY used to make their translation.

Many of the different books were originally in quite a few languages and dialects. It would be interesting if there were a way to take the original manuscripts directly into modern languages without the intermediary languages. Unfortunately, this would require programming to ascertain what the original words were designed in that context.

For example, take a look at some of Norman Rockwell's paintings - the one with gossip being passed on - by the time it got to the last frame, the person (the originator) got a completely different story!

I would say, however, that I commend your desire to learn languages in pursuit of understanding something that appears to be important to you.

quote:

Hebrew and Greek - to learn or not to learn?

Posted by konata88. How did I guess…

Violin, chess, bible version, …

I'd learn Greek first then you can read NT and the LXX like Paul.

Thanks guys.

I guess by now, current bible versions are more or less accepted as correctly translated with some minor liberties. That sounds reasonable I guess. Still, it’s curious that the study bible includes many references to the original Hebrew word and an alternative meaning. But point taken that I may be better served (or I may serve better) if I take the translation as-is and study the meaning in more depth rather than chase the original text having learned the language. Perhaps that’s a secondary endeavor for the future.

The concordance is interesting. I’m not familiar with it. It seems like a specially notated version with references to the original text and definitions. That may be a great, effective and efficient way to go. Need to look into that - an ESV version with the concordance notations referencing the original Hebrew or Greek. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

quote:

Hebrew and Greek - to learn or not to learn?

Posted by konata88. How did I guess…

Violin, chess, bible version, …

Sorry, I guess I’m somewhat monotonous - I’m not able to juggle multiple things at once. I’ve actually kind of given up chess - I was playing w/o learning and lost interest in losing all the time. Violin is on hold until I find a teacher. Bible is a daily focus from now until death. On deck, want to learn Latin, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese. Piano, harmonica and pickleball are waiting in the dugout.

If your desire to learn about the original sources that led to the Bibles we know today is strong enough to consider learning Greek and Hebrew, you might find it useful to first learn what biblical scholars have to say about early sources. For example, it’s generally accepted that there are no “original” versions of the four Gospels available today. I.e., there are no known manuscripts that could have been personally penned by the original writers of the books that have come down to us today.

There are many books and videos that discuss the matter at length. One YouTube presenter and author of books that touch on the subject is Bart Ehrman. He is a born-again evangelical turned agnostic turned atheist, and therefore mere mention of his name will raise some hackles, but there are many others.

Thanks. I’m not really familiar and unsure of what texts the study bible references when it makes note of the original Hebrew word used in a particular verse.

I’m assuming either the Torah or the Septuagint (for the NT). But could be wrong. But you’re right, identifying the original and getting a copy of one may be challenging after having learned the language. I understand that Biblical Hebrew is not the same as modern Hebrew so that it may not be usable should I travel to ISR (would like to go again someday).

I'm not sure if this helps, but might be a resource for you to explore.

 https://www.greekbible.com/ 

There are actually many manuscripts of the Bible written in Hebrew and Greek today, in fact over 5,500 of them from early as AD 130's. The New Testament was written while some of the original authors were still alive to make sure the truth was out there. One thing we can see is that in 70 A.D., when the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed and was not recorded in the Bible. That would be huge news to the original writers. Most of the New Testament was written prior to the death of the apostles or their disciples as there were eye-witnesses of Jesus and what He did and the apostle's disciples saw to it. If we can't rely on what we have, what are we to say about those who lived and have very little recorded on them like Plato, Homer, Aristotle, etc., who we have very few manuscripts to date and those are just a few? Are they more reliable than what was written about Jesus?

I wouldn't try to learn Hebrew and Greek as the manuscripts in the Bible are pretty much translated to the truth with minimal amounts of wording disconnect and that is only because of words that don't translate easily to English but they never took away or added to what was originally written.

I would look into a New King James Version or a NASB '95 for easier understanding/translation that holds to the original copies/text. Also start with the New Testament and not the Old, especially the first 4 which are the Gospels or 'Good News' of Jesus and God's plan for our life and more importantly, salvation. Get a firm grasp on the English version and then if you want, then you can try and learn Hebrew and Greek. The Gospel was meant for everyone and other countries have versions written in their language, so there is no need to study another language until you get a good foundation.


Another thing to think about, if the Bible is a lie and not the truth, why would the apostles die a horrible death in the name of a lie? How many people do you know would die for a lie and not try to save themselves by admitting it was a lie/fabricated truth? Personally, I don't know of any.

To the naysayers or atheists out there, the biggest question is, who are YOU going to trust?
What makes others so sure there is no God? Do they have proof that we don't know about? What I am saying is there is a lot of "learned people" out there who have no clue themselves and they expect the rest of us without a PHD, to follow them blindly because of what they believe. I, personally, choose to follow Jesus. If you research, you will find others who have written about Him, those who didn't follow His teachings and just reported in history about Him.

I’ll add, the one I posted will give you more in depth info than Strong’s and much more by specific verses. Most times it gives meaning in OT, secular and NT applications. It will help you understand more by how the word is used in a particular verse.

I think to learn Greek or Hebrew well enough to get some insight which you will not get from ESV, etc takes a very high level of proficiency.

One of the greatest dangers in the modern church, is the rejection of authority.

Our pastor has multiple doctorates in theology, medicine, history, etc, as well as a calling, etc.

You should have your own relationship with the Holy Spirit, and rely on Scripture and that relationship, but I tend to defer to my pastor in the same way that I defer to the industrial HVAC men and fabricators at work.

For Greek-
https://www.billmounce.com/
Bill Mounce

Please remember that the Bible is trustworthy. 2 Timothy 3:16

Please remember that the Word existed apart from any written document. John 1:1-18

Please remember that God's Word allows us to remain on the correct path. Psalm 119:9-16

Please remember that God's Word is like a light in the darkness. Psalm 119:105

Please remember that Christ fulfilled the law. Matthew 5:17

Please remember that salvation comes through faith alone. Ephesians 2:8-9

Please remember that we can trust God for understanding and direction. Proverbs 3:5-6

Understanding God's Word is best approached with these principles in mind.

The original language of any text is of limited value, given the vast array of scholars who have given their lives to the effort to bring God's Word to us in native tongues. We can also look to the continuing efforts by translators today to understand new languages and bring God's Word to those people groups in their own tongue. The point is that God's Word has always been given in various languages.

Greek was the language franca of the time of Christ, and as such, became the language for the writers of the New Testament. There is no inherent spirituality to the text in Greek. It was chosen to allow wide dissemination of the information.

I encourage you to read in your original mother tongue, to allow you full comprehension of the Word. If you choose a single Bible translation first, it will become a reference for later evaluation with other translations.

Let's look at one verse in a few translations:

New International Version:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New Living Translation:

For this is how God loved the world: He gave[a] his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Young's Literal Translation:

for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

New American Standard:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

King James Version:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

New King James Version:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Holman Christian Standard:

For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

You can see from these few translations that the truth of God's Word remains, regardless of the choice of words in our language. The translators have carefully studied the earliest texts, the most reliable copies, and applied Greek scholarship. Some have determined that context demands a more nuanced choice of words. Some have decided that writing the words in English should follow the word order of the original. One is written in archaic English, and has been rewritten in our current English under the same sobriquet.

God wants us to hide His Word in our hearts (Psalm 119:11), and this means that we must read it and meditate on its meaning in our mother tongue. We can trust God's Word in our own language, and I am glad you are taking on a new quest to read it.

"The 90-Day Bible" is a useful resource to work through the Bible in a short time period. It offers a structure that gives the reader a sense of accomplishment and a plan for success.

The Gospel of John is a super starting point for the entire Bible, believe it or not. Reading those verses, one can then return to a more rigorous reading plan.

quote:

On deck, want to learn Latin, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese. Piano, harmonica

Wow that is a unique list and interesting goals..

Piano is on my list, it has been since I was a kid.. Chess is a no but I always wanted to learn backgammon. My uncle game me a gorgeous leather and felt backgammon board. Never used it, or played on it for 40 years.

I passively (read: half a--ed) tried to learn Vietnamese for years. It is very tonal.

Growing up, we had a good concentration of Cambodians at my middle and high school, I became good friends with them and wanted to some of the language.

While its grammar is straightforward and it lacks the complex pitches of tonal languages (like Thai or Vietnamese), it features a completely unique, complex alphabet and highly specific, difficult pronunciation.

Heck I have trouble with English.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Thanks. I’m not really familiar and unsure of what texts the study bible references when it makes note of the original Hebrew word used in a particular verse.

I’m assuming either the Torah or the Septuagint (for the NT). But could be wrong. But you’re right, identifying the original and getting a copy of one may be challenging after having learned the language. I understand that Biblical Hebrew is not the same as modern Hebrew so that it may not be usable should I travel to ISR (would like to go again someday).

Paul used the Septuagint and knew Christ personally. tough to beat that kind of endorsement.

I like Wes Huff for all questions about the Bible’s various translations.

My phone isn’t cooperating…..

https://youtu.be/gtp-DmgZbwA?si=kKC7iYuBcaN5FYXZ

It's not a bad idea but ypu don't actualy have to own Greek/Hebrew Bibles or learn the language. The resources exist online whenever you want to look anything up.

You'd be better off, imo, having multiple translations of the Bible that come at the translation from a different perspective. Word for word translation will be more like reading the original language for yourself, so get a NASB or at least an ESV. Thought for thought Bibles take into account context and customs of the time and give their best translation of the meaning of the passage. This eliminates the possibility of our misunderstanding of idioms or colloquialisms. NIV is the standard thought-for-thought Bible.