SigForum group buy?

https://www.popularmechanics.c...2-KtuFjDaOKTuJ1CfvDU

I'm in for $50

I don't see why not. If we all chip in, that's less than $40 each!

I’m in if I can get on the first bombing run that’d be great...I have a place in mind

My friend's former company owns one.

https://www.collingsfoundation...crafts/f-4d-phantom/

Doesn't have a gun on it...lame. I'm more of a Crusader guy myself.

Not worth having unless you can have a matched set.

A buddy of mine flew the Wild Weasel.

It burns a god awful amount of fuel that exceeds a 747 and it takes 40 man hours of maintenance for every flight hour.

I figure that if we do a group buy we should be able to finish taking turns in 2035 which is also when my Covid TP stash will be used up.

Our member Stud Monkey used to work on them, I bet he hasn't forgotten anything and probably has all the tools.

We just need to watch him and make sure he doesn't get hung up upside down in the seat with his boots up in the air. Someone has to pull him out.

I'm a member of the Green Valley Amateur Radio Club, there is 1, if not 2, guys who flew them back in the day.
.

I still have my speed handle and saftey wire pliers.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:

It burns a god awful amount of fuel that exceeds a 747 and it takes 40 man hours of maintenance for every flight hour.

Not remotely close, on the fuel burn.

Lots to like in an F-4.

I'd think a F104 Starfighter would be cheaper to buy/operate.

But were jusst dreaming right?

If I'm not mistaken, that is THE F4 that set the low altitude speed record - Project Sageburner.

Which still stands AFAIK. Regards 18DAI

Like every airplane, the purchase price is the cheap part!

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:

It burns a god awful amount of fuel that exceeds a 747 and it takes 40 man hours of maintenance for every flight hour.

Not remotely close, on the fuel burn.

I'd be interested in seeing the takeoff and climb burn rates for the F4.

From my quick Google the F4 burns up to 9k ppm per engine or 18k ppm total and at sea level with afterburner the burn rate is more than 100k ppm which would last about 10 mins.

From Boeing's site their flaps 10 setting shows a take off and climb rates that burn 22 to 23k lbs combined for all four engines.

The per engine ppm is much higher with the F4 but if I'm reading the data wrong I'm very willing to be corrected.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:


I still have my speed handle and saftey wire pliers.

We called them “mousing pliers” we had to “mouse” any and all nuts on cannons, machine guns, etc

I’ve given a lot of blood to the gun gods while mousing, inside a gun turret....

I imagine an aircraft has plenty of them too...

Now back to you regularly scheduled show

@Flashlightboy

When doing wet runs on the F-4E, (at Eglin, 85 feet ASL) we would see about 2000-2600 PPH (pounds per hour) fuel flow at idle, and about 1600-1800 PPH at mil. (The fuel clock needle is on the big numbers)

No (accurate) FF indication for burner.
When you banged burner, from min to max, the Fuel Flow indicators jumped to about 10000-12000 PPH and you multiplied by 4.

(The fuel clock needles were up in the tiny numbers)

But when when pilots had the jet turned up to 11, he was concerned with a whole lot of other important things, and focusing on how fast he is eating dead dinosaurs is not number to decimal places he is calculating.

But, yeah, 10x the rate of consumption. One take off roll, the jet is in full burner for about 20-30 seconds from brakes off, staging burner, rotation, gear up, and starting to clean up flaps.

(all the numbers are 40 years memory and close, since we relied on checklists/charts/graphs)

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:


From Boeing's site their flaps 10 setting shows a take off and climb rates that burn 22 to 23k lbs combined for all four engines.

Average fuel burn in cruise on a Classic 747 is 24,000 to 28,000 lbs/hr. Approach fuel burn is about the same. In fact, lose an engine, and it remains the same, so each engine at 6,000 lbs/hr. fuel flow with four, 8,000 lbs fuel flow on three, 10,000 to 12,000 lbs on two. Fuel burn total stays about the same.

Takeoff, fuel burn is substantially higher.

The F4 fuel burn averages 6,000 lbs/hr.

For ballpark planning purposes on the 747, plan on a burn of 30,000 per hour for the duration of the trip, so for a 7 hour flight, rule of thumb is 210,000 lbs. Plan 30,000 lbs from brake release to top of climb. Fuel flow at takeoff is considerably higher than climb fuel flow or cruise fuel flow. It also has 230,000 lbs available, just with wing tanks filled, and another 98,000 lbs fuel in the center wing tank.

The F4 will have a high temporary fuel burn in full military thrust, but won't last very long. As a rule of thumb, the F4 fuel burn is approximately 1/4 that of the 747.

Bear in mind that without external stores, internal fuel on the F4 is only about 14,000 lbs.

The big difference is performance; the 747 Classic is lifting 830,000 lbs, but cruises at .84 M1. The Phantom is a whole lot lighter, climbs a whole lot faster, and is a tad speedier. It just doesn't go as far.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:...
Bear in mind that without external stores, internal fuel on the F4 is only about 14,000 lbs. ...

Yep, with a pair of 370 tanks the E model hauled about 36,000 lbs of "fire-make-it-happener".

Typical DACT/ACT (**poking holes up in the sky, trying to kill the other guy) lasted about 1.5 to 1.7 hours, and that nose strut started looking "Navy" coming back into the chocks.


**to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (just don't sing it in earshot of the aircrew...)

I spent some time around Phantoms at Aviano AB.
Our neighbors bitched about the noise made during takeoffs.
A night burner takeoff was a thing of beauty!
I am in on a group buy but we will need lots of Kerosene.