quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
His instructors were of the thinking that sometimes no camo is the best camo;

That's kind of my thinking, re: sage/leaf green. It doesn't "look military."

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
OD green was what they suggested as an all around, all environment uniform if you had to choose one.

Apparently the SF hive mind agrees with them

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
They explained how the human eye fixates first on movement, then narrows to contrasting colors. They demonstrated this by an instructor in OD sitting about 25 yards off a trail in plain view
and having students try to find him while walking the trail. More than half missed him.

I know about this first-hand. A bit better than 25 years ago I played paintball extensively for a couple years. My "specialty," if you will, was covert movement through brush. I was pretty good at it, too. I'd often get to the opposing team's flag w/o anybody ever seeing me or my ever firing a shot. (I regarded having to shoot a failure.)

Sometimes I was too good at advancing against the opposing force and end-up getting taken-down by friendly fire

I used to wear Realtree camo. One time, during an early winter game, I sat with a partner in scant cover no more than twenty feet off a trail. A five-man squad walked right past us--at one point looking, it seemed, directly at us and not seeing us. Unfortunately, my partner would not STFU and our team captain had inadvisedly made team patches of a really brilliant blue. The last guy of the squad had thought he'd vaguely heard voices, turned for a last look after they'd passed us, saw that little bit of blue, and it was over for us.

Had it not been for my partner babbling or that patch, we would've gotten in behind them, waited for them to engage our team further on, and they probably would've been toast.

As others have rightly pointed out, depends on your environment.

Black is the worse generally, unless you're wearing black/dark clothes to begin with like a sport coat/jacket on top.

Solids are best, for much of the North America, given there's broadleaf foliage and grass year round some shade of green works: OD Green, Ranger Green, etc.. Green is also not too threatening, not as aggressive to the eye as a pattern is, hence why some departments have avoided having their tac-teams in camo.
* Grey has been a growing trend, particularly for those that are in urban/suburban or, built-up areas. When there's just as much concrete, steel, glass as there are trees and fields, Urban Grey, Wolf Gray, Tactical Grey are all increasing in popularity.
* If you're in an arid climate, like SW US and Mexico, than Brown is a better option...Coyote Brown seems the most versatile, there's varying shades of Khaki and Desert Tan as well.

Patterns are subjective, multi-environment patterns will work well for many but, not all areas so, choose wisely. Wear camo in an urban or, built-up area and you'll stand-out, not like a highlighter but, like a confusing spot in the open. MultiCam has been the most successful for a variety of reasons, Kryptek, A-TACS and others have also found some success. Hunting patterns are useful to a point, keep in mind they were developed principally for use on the eyes of animals, not humans. Good luck finding decent tactical gear in Mossy Oak, Realtree or any of the other commercially marketed brands.

There was a map of the US, that had appropriate camo patterns for each area...I'll have to find it but, it generally went like this:

* Woodland MARPAT- PacNW, Cascades, Sierras, Front Range of CO, NM, lowland areas and coastal areas from TX/LA all the way around to VA.
* MultiCam Arid- Great Plains from MT to TX, most of CA non-Sierras & Coast Range,
* A-TACS Arid Urban and Desert MARPAT- Great Basin/High Desert areas, most of AZ & NM, back range of Rockies
* 5-color Flecktarn (German)- Eastern and most of SE US, Upper Mid West

quote:

* If you're in an arid climate, like SW US and Mexico, than Brown is a better option...Coyote Brown seems the most versatile, there's varying shades of Khaki and Desert Tan as well.

FWIW, in the SW US, a lot of urban areas use a lot of shades of lighter brown or tan in building materials and paints such that a faded tan might actually work pretty well as far as solids go. You asked about urban patterns; if you're looking at urban areas up in Michigan for some reason (as opposed to just looking for a general-purpose color or pattern), take a look at the colors of materials and paints used.

As an aside, A-TACS AU actually seems to work pretty well in central to southern Texas but it certainly seems to work better in arid areas than in the more heavily urbanized (think downtown) areas. Somehow it seems a single color would work better in town than a pattern.

The worst Camo is the ARMY's UCP. A universal camo pattern that dosen't blend in any where.

Multi cam is a good all purpose camo, especially when you get it dirty. OD green and Coyote brown are also good, depending on where you are.

A word on camo plate carriers, I recommend that the carrier matches the garment underneath them. Otherwise the contrasting patterns create aiming points.

I have used UCP in the snow.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I have used UCP in the snow.

we used them up at FT Drum, but found over whites worked better for us. Although, I could seem them being effective depending on whats behind you or around you.

OD green and grey are the best colors.

V.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Thanks for the votes and the comments, guys!

As it currently stands: OD Green is clearly winning the "most all-around useful/effective" vote and is tied with coyote as one of the two least unuseful/ineffective.

I would not have expected that.

I'm not particularly surprised by black being in second place as "best," first place as "worst," and the comments regarding it.

One color that was not on my list, because I don't often see it offered, is sage/leafy green. That's unfortunate because, of all the colors with the possible exception of coyote, it strikes me as the most innocuous and, I suspect, would probably be the most widely-utilitarian color of them all. (I have a compact modular assault pack in that color.)

I'm thinking I'll probably go with OD or Ranger green.

For many years, USAF fatigues were Sage Green.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

* If you're in an arid climate, like SW US and Mexico, than Brown is a better option...Coyote Brown seems the most versatile, there's varying shades of Khaki and Desert Tan as well.

FWIW, in the SW US, a lot of urban areas use a lot of shades of lighter brown or tan in building materials and paints such that a faded tan might actually work pretty well as far as solids go....

As an aside, A-TACS AU actually seems to work pretty well in central to southern Texas but it certainly seems to work better in arid areas than in the more heavily urbanized (think downtown) areas.

ATACS AU is one of the few camo patterns that I've seen put to use effectively by urban/suburban police tactical units.

It's a combination of tans and grays, and does an excellent job in many urban areas, especially in Texas and the Southwest. There's a lot of tan and gray in modern construction materials.

This guy Brent test alot of camo,interesting to watch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WckhOUMfHk

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
The worst Camo is the ARMY's UCP. A universal camo pattern that dosen't blend in any where.

As crappy as UCP is, it's unfair to say it doesn't blend in anywhere. (There are legitimately camo patterns that do not blend in anywhere, but those are often designed/chosen by various countries for the fashion statement alone, not for any specific camouflage effect.)

UCP does okay in a few (very limited) settings. For example: some urban areas, some gray-dominant desert areas, and some rocky/gravely mountainous areas. Especially once coated in dust and dirt to tone down the overall brightness.

But yeah, it's far from universal, and isn't even useful in most settings.





Compare against Multicam in the same rocky gray setting:

quote:

There's a lot of tan and gray in modern construction materials.

Yep, especially in outside areas where people will (notionally) congregate. Where you tend to run into trouble in sunnier areas is that people tend to use a lot of white, off-white and red as well, and sunlight tends to make them even brighter.

It doesn't look like sage/leaf green is very widely available. It's kind of looking like the next best option for the most widely-effect color is probably going to be one of the grays.

Since grays seem to be increasing in popularity, I think I'll hold off for a while and see if I can find something I like to appear in gray and maybe standardize on that.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
It doesn't look like sage/leaf green is very widely available. It's kind of looking like the next best option for the most widely-effect color is probably going to be one of the grays.

Since grays seem to be increasing in popularity, I think I'll hold off for a while and see if I can find something I like to appear in gray and maybe standardize on that.

"They say" Wolf Gray is the new black. I've gotten several pieces in gray and find it eminently usable, though my personal preference is for OD or one of the greens.

Looks to be winter/fall. There are probably more accurate/representative models out there.

That map is cool-looking, but not very accurate in some areas.

Neither Spring Oakleaf/Partizan nor Flecktarn will do you much good in Arkansas in the Fall and Winter. (Maybe Flecktarn in the deep woody hills/mountains during the height of red/yellow/orange fall foliage, but that's only a small percentage of Arkansas.)

I can tell you that Multicam works decently well during later fall and winter, since there tends to be a lot of tans and browns with a little bit of green. Brown-heavy commercial hunting camo like Realtree and Natural Gear work well too. During the really dead part of winter, some desert camos work okay as well.

quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Since grays seem to be increasing in popularity, I think I'll hold off for a while and see if I can find something I like to appear in gray and maybe standardize on that.

"They say" Wolf Gray is the new black.

Gray saw a big spike in popularity 5ish years ago, but it seems like I've seen a number of manufacturers who clearanced out their gray gear over the last year or so. So that trend appears that it may be dying out...


From occasionally reading various other gear boards, Ranger/OD Green seems to be the new (old) hotness, so that seems to have come full circle. Folks are rediscovering that it's the best all-around solid color option, just like many militaries did back in the mid-20th Century. And Coyote is still staying strong, albeit having waned compared to the height of the "wannabe desert contractor fashionista" trend of the mid/late 2000s and early 2010s.

And Multicam anything is in vogue, with (surprisingly) Rhodesian Brushstroke making a weird trendy comeback from near-obscurity (but that's likely for tactical hipster fashion purposes more than any actual effectiveness...)

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
That map is cool-looking, but not very accurate ....

Yes, I’m sure the maker had a lot of fun with it, but can we even imagine someone’s doing detailed environmental site surveys everywhere in the country to determine which of several similar patterns and colors would be best in a particular location?

And one thing I learned about camo when I started to research the most effective pattern:
Most patterns are just marketing. If you watch the major brands of hunting clothing, its not unusual for them to change, alter or offer new patterns yearly.
To save money and have long lasting gear:
OD green.
Grey.
Earth brown.
Tan or Coyote in arid areas.
White or snow camo in winter.
I buy most of my Flectarn from two vendors:
Varusteleka
Military 1st.
They have all the Euro stuff, often at killer prices. Varusteleka is Finnish and a great source of winter camo. Fast service too.

Ok, here's the map from my prior post

Some of y'all are losing sight of the original question: If you had one color/pattern to chose, which you might have to use anywhere in the country--urban, suburban, rural, or entirely undeveloped, at any time of the year: Which one would you choose? Which one would you most avoid?

I guess I should have worded my OP that way.