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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Yeah, the news was saying "Thankfully only 150 sailors were onboard instead of the 1500 during the week..." Well, in reality if the crew was trained properly, they would have been FAR better off having 1500 of them onboard to fight the fire while it was small and containable. The US Navy was (is?) second to none when it comes to damage control drills - part of the reason they have kept ships afloat that should have sank. Granted, if they were lax in training since the ship was in a year long maintenance period, it might not have made any difference. But this is a $Billion dollar fuck up. Lots of heads should roll (CO/XO/Staff/MX Contractor/Company) but we all know how that'll go. | |||
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Truth Wins |
Wow, didn't know flames were coming out of the superstructure now. My son was on that ship for a short time a year or so ago. https://americanmilitarynews.c...urs-21-hospitalized/ _____________ "I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau | |||
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Low Speed, High Drag |
I can't speak for the BHR but A lot of commands run 12 duty sections as a quality of life effort. 3 section duty sucks but at least you have enough of the crew on board to handle stuff like this. "Blessed is he who when facing his own demise, thinks only of his front sight.” Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem Montani Semper Liberi | |||
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| Member |
I was the Damage Control Assistant (DCA) in USS BATAAN (LHD-5) from NOV 2004 - JUN 2006. The DCA aboard a naval vessel is the head of the firefighting department. I think there are two things that contributed to this getting out of hand. First, it happened on the weekend when the duty section was onboard. There are a few damage control specialists in each duty section, but the bulk of the damage control expertise was not onboard. Next, the ship was undergoing some kind of maintenance period, so there is a lot of extra equipment on board. And, a lot of extra non-navy maintenance personnel. A class "ALPHA" fire is, in general terms, a fire from a solid material that leaves some kind of ash, so paper, wood, cardboard. When people are on board to weld, it requires a "Hot work chit" which will state where the welding is taking place and requires the signatures of people who are damage control qualified and will be in the space where the welding takes place and the other side of the bulkhead. The "Fire watch" must be maintained the entire time the welding is going on. The vehicle storage areas are covered by various means of firefighting - hoses, foam, ... There will be a massive investigation about how this happened. One of things we trained for was what to do if a fire starts moving through the ventilation system. IF a fire where to get in the air vents, it could spread rapidly throughout the ship. And that would be a nightmare. Speed is fine, but accuracy is final The use of the pen is an indulgence we can afford only because better men and women grip the sword on our behalf -Ralph Peters | |||
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| Member |
Yes, it is entirely possible that the fire could spread to land or other ships. You have a lot of fuel on that vessel. The more water you spray onto the ship to combat the fire makes it sinking more of a probability. The pumps on board a ship like that are all manually activated, but without crew and electricity to run the pumps, the vessel is going to just have more and more water in the bilges and capsizing in the slip is a good possibility. Fuel leaking out into the water is a definate probibility, fuel then floats on top of the water as it's lighter than water, ignite and spread to other neighboring vessels and the pier. Fuel on board can cause an explosion as well. All of these are possibilities with a fire with that much heat and magnitude. Same with any munitions that may be on board. 150 crew on board that vessel is extremely light on a vessel of that size and if they had half of their normal crew they most likely would have contained the fire and/or put it out entirely. | |||
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| Dances With Tornados |
I certainly hope that 1 Million Gallons of fuel is safe. The reports I've seen say something to the effect that's its tucked below and away from the fire. Since the fire is obviously very hot, I'm wondering if it is warming up enough near the fuel to warm it to more vapors? There surely has to be some venting from the tanks to atmosphere to equalize? Obviously there is no success in containing and controlling the fire. I'm just shuddering to think of enough fuel vaporizing and exploding. Hole E Shit! | |||
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Official Space Nerd |
Thank you for your input and perspective. Just curious, is a fire this something that one could expect from a ship undergoing this sort of maintenance? I find it suspicious that a fire at the dockside could not be contained before it got out of hand. Also, the 'explosion' that supposedly set off the fire in the first place could have, of course, come from a variety of sources, some accidental and some intentional. Finally, is maintenance (welding, etc) normally done on a Sunday? This whole thing has me remembering the fishy circumstances behind the Notre Dame fire. . .
I'm not certain what kind of fuel she uses for her main engines, or what kind of 'fuel' they are talking about when they say "1 million gallons of fuel." If most of this is diesel, she should be ok. Diesel burns but0 does not produce dangerous fuel vapors like gasoline does. If a large proportion of this is aviation gasoline, though, that's a bigger problem. High octane gasoline DOES produce very dangerous vapors. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Good grief, man, I wasn't serious. I was making a point about speaking in vague and gloomy terms. I don't like that kind of stuff. It sounds dramatic but means nothing. | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
I doubt that there is much, if any, gasoline on board, high octane or other. Gasoline is used in piston engines; I don't believe that there are any piston powered aircraft aboard the carrier. I'm pretty sure that they are all turbine engines and use jet fuel, very similar to diesel fuel. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Dances With Tornados |
I was thinking of the fuel for the aircraft. Ship stats shows she has steam turbines, I assume boilers provide that? Would there also be jet turbine power plants for other electrical supply? | |||
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| Son of a son of a Sailor  |
It's Diesel. There may be a small percentage of jet fuel onboard, but the steam plant is powered by boilers that burn Diesel. -------------------------------------------- Floridian by birth, Seminole by the grace of God | |||
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| Member |
Fuel for her boilers which power the turbines, all the A/C units, pumps and any other auxiliary machinery that's separate from the main power plant. She's been in maintenance for a better part of 2-years, everything is taken apart or, was in the process of, getting put back together. Zero aircraft or, most anything related to aircraft; much of this maintenance period was to get ready to embark the F-35, also very little ordinance outside of small arms for security. | |||
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Speed is fine, but accuracy is final The use of the pen is an indulgence we can afford only because better men and women grip the sword on our behalf -Ralph Peters | |||
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| Member |
An LHD will carry DFM (Diesel Fuel Marine) for the boilers and back up diesels and JP-5 for aircraft. Speed is fine, but accuracy is final The use of the pen is an indulgence we can afford only because better men and women grip the sword on our behalf -Ralph Peters | |||
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Member |
Yea think your right. My first and second ship went to razor blades. | |||
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| Member |
Funny you should mention duty sections, there's rumblings about why it took 4+hours to get the two destroyers who were tied-up along the same pier, Fitzgerald and Russell, underway. Both ships were getting inundated with smoke and fumes into their spaces for several hours before they were moved, fire was reported at 0850PST, Fitz got underway at 1300PST and Russell was tugged-out 30-min later. There's going to be many investigations once things calm down... | |||
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| Official Space Nerd |
I also think it's interesting how the Navy says the smoke does not constitute a health hazard. This sounds, to me, like they are trying to cover their butts. All the burning chemicals, insulation, wiring, electronic components, paint, materials, etc etc etc burning on that huge ship, and NONE of it is a 'health hazard?' Yeah, right. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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Festina Lente |
Reports I've seen were it took extra sailors from other ships to augment the duty sections. And no cranes or port ops, just figure it out and go. In very low visibility. Wonder how much the Command Duty Officer was sweating taking command, or if the delay was getting the CO or XO on board. CDO is supposed to be capable. But that skill set is almost never tested. NRA Life Member - "Fear God and Dreadnaught" | |||
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| Member |
When I first came in, the CDO had to be a TAO qualified department head. 15 years later on BATAAN, we had the ASST SUPPO as a CDO. So, yes, I think the CDO is under extreme pressure is situations like this, unless you get lucky and have an experienced DH. Speed is fine, but accuracy is final The use of the pen is an indulgence we can afford only because better men and women grip the sword on our behalf -Ralph Peters | |||
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Better Than I Deserve! |
A news story yesterday (I think it was ABC) said there was ordinance onboard. I spent 26 years in the Navy and we always offloaded ordinance prior to yard periods. I don't know if they had bad information or if something changed and they keep ordinance onboard now while in a yard period? Anyone else heard anything about ordinance being onboard? ____________________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member GOA Life Member Arizona Citizens Defense League Life Member | |||
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