All nice and legal. Yep.

The reality here is that over 90% of these "of these transfers" take place just by handing the gun to the offspring. I doubt if it ever or only rarely results in a problem of any kind. Just an example of government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. You can make up a story of giving it to them long ago when they lived at home and were of age. Mostly no one cares, except busy bodies sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. In the better states, those with good laws, its all perfectly legal.

If anyone asks what proof you have, you don't need any. They're the ones who need proof, and they don't have any witness'. If anyone asks, just clam up. Tell them to mind their own business. Someone, like here on the forum, should make a list of the better states where no proof is required. I can't imagine going to a gun store to give my son a gun. Around here, you'd get laughed out of the shop.

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:
I'm confused. Why not just sell it to her for whatever you want, $5.00, and send it from your FFL to her FFL. End of problem.

If one wants to give guns to someone living in another state they can do that, using an FFL in the recipient’s state to affect the transfer. There is no need to “sell” them the gun for any price to have the FFL transfer it to them.

If the FFL in the recipient’s state accepts firearms from shipped from private parties, you don’t need an FFL on your end. However, with the carrier tariffs requiring next day air for handguns, it may be more cost effective to go FFL to FFL.

I got bad info re this by an Ohio FFL and 2 Fla FFLs. They as much as laughed at me for asking. FLA guy says I’m best friends with local ATF guy, it won’t be a problem. He wouldn’t even take the transfer fee. So I left.
Sig2340 saved my bacon. I had seen this scenario brought up by him. It’s either in a will, or has to go thru FFL. I contacted Sig2340 and he reinforced what was legal. Just cause someone’s an FFL doesn’t mean they’re not misinformed.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:
I'm confused. Why not just sell it to her for whatever you want, $5.00, and send it from your FFL to her FFL. End of problem.

If one wants to give guns to someone living in another state they can do that, using an FFL in the recipient’s state to affect the transfer. There is no need to “sell” them the gun for any price to have the FFL transfer it to them.

If the FFL in the recipient’s state accepts firearms from shipped from private parties, you don’t need an FFL on your end. However, with the carrier tariffs requiring next day air for handguns, it may be more cost effective to go FFL to FFL.

Does shipping need to be involved?

They live in neighboring states. Can the father just go meet the daughter at an FFL in the daughter’s state, MI, and make the transfers there? Assuming the daughter has all the MI pistol permit paperwork ready for any handguns.

Don’t have to ship to an FFL, but ask first. I’ve received guns from a seller in IL, I’m near the border. We met at an FFL in WI, he set the gun on the counter, I did a background check.

From IN to MI, likely has reason to visit at times anyway. It seems shipping has become more difficult in recent years, especially for the non-FFL shipper.

This would be a way to keep everyone happy, I think.

All sorts of advice in this thread. You know that old saying: "Opinions are like assholes- they're everywhere."

Someone mentioned thatMichigan has a registration.

With that being said, you probably should go thru an FFL at his/her end to make sure you don’t inadvertently make your kid a criminal.

I’d call an FFL in his state and ask about it. And I’d consult their state police since it seems like they run the registry. The kid may need prior approval.

Lots of different opinions!

This article from the National Shooting Sports Foundation offers some succinct advice.

https://www.nssf.org/articles/...reminders-from-nssf/

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
Lots of different opinions!

This article from the National Shooting Sports Foundation offers some succinct advice.

https://www.nssf.org/articles/...reminders-from-nssf/

This article makes it sound like Federal law requires you to ship to an FFL. I’d expect that that article is wrong (or poorly written) about this point and sourdough44 is correct, but it couldn’t hurt to clarify with the ATF.

The OP stated:

quote:

Originally posted by duke762:
My daughter and her husband live in Michigan and I live in Indiana.

The article states:

quote:

If the person you want to give the gift of a firearm to does not reside in the same state as you, then under federal law you have to ship the firearm to a licensed firearm retailer in the state where the recipient lives who can transfer the firearm after a background check.

Follow the law.

^^^^^^^^
Hey, listen to this guy.

Federal law requires it. The whole “just give it to them it rarely causes a problem” is like saying “cheat on your taxes, they rarely catch you”

That article is wrong, or poorly written, in that it does not need to be shipped. It does have to go through an FFL. I am aware of nothing in federal law that would prohibit walking in the door of an FFL with a firearm that I legally possess and selling or transferring it to the dealer, who can then transfer it to someone else. I think it was just slightly poorly written in that the author intended to state that it could not be shipped to an individual, not that it had to be shipped as opposed to personally delivered.

To the point of suggestions such as “just do it”, or “no one will know”, when someone asks a question about legalities, it is best to assume they want answers about what is legal, not what you may be able to get away with regardless of the legality.

And it’s not just about authorities coming looking. What if the gun is used in self defense? Certainly an unfriendly prosecutor could go after a person for the federal firearms violation, even if the use was justified.

In order for a non-resident of MI to bring a handgun into MI, that person must have a CWL from his/her state of residence, have the card with them while in possession of the handgun, and present it on demand to a police officer.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
That article is wrong, or poorly written, in that it does not need to be shipped. It does have to go through an FFL. I am aware of nothing in federal law that would prohibit walking in the door of an FFL with a firearm that I legally possess and selling or transferring it to the dealer, who can then transfer it to someone else.

I live in Indiana and a friend, that lives in Illinois, wanted to sell me a pistol. He drove to Indiana and we went to my local gun shop where the dealer charged a transfer fee and the pistol was handed to me. Done deal. You are correct in your above statement as far as Indiana and Illinois are concerned. I don't know anything about Michigan law. Maybe something is different there. My original post on the subject sought to simplify the process so that both parties will get what they want. So whether or not you have to "sell" the gun is immaterial. My suggestion is the simplest legal way to get it done. If the law works the same way from Indiana to Michigan then maybe taking the gun there would be most cost effective. Otherwise I think my original idea would be best.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The OP stated:

quote:

Originally posted by duke762:
My daughter and her husband live in Michigan and I live in Indiana.

The article states:

quote:

If the person you want to give the gift of a firearm to does not reside in the same state as you, then under federal law you have to ship the firearm to a licensed firearm retailer in the state where the recipient lives who can transfer the firearm after a background check.

Follow the law.

I absolutely agree that one should follow the law. I do not believe that the article accurately states the law. One would be well advised to read the actual federal law that requires interstate transfers of firearms to go through an FFL and ensure that they are in compliance.

I *think* the relevant section is 922(5), and I think it means you have to use an FFL for an interstate transfer. Of some interest is that the words “shipping” and “ship” are not mentioned anywhere in the text. My apologies for the crap cut and paste below, it is kinda brutal on a phone.(fixed)

Please do your own research, but that’s what I found on a phone.

Beyond the legalities, check with the FFL and make sure he or she will do the transfer. Different FFLs have different understandings and some are more conservative than the law requires.


"18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—

. . . [sections 1 - 4 snipped] . . .

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person
(other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has rea- sonable cause to believe resides in a State other than that in
which the transferor resides (or other than that in which its place of business is located if the transferor is a corporation or other business entity); except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;”

. . . [sections 6 and later snipped] . . .

Edited to clean up formatting of (what I think is) the relevant part of section 922 of the GCA.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slosig,

That is the entire point. Forget about whether shipping or walking into an FFL. Just forget about that. The essential point is that an FFL must facilitate the transfer.

The article talks about shipping because the assumption is that the transfer would take place when the giver and receiver both are located in their respective home state. Getting bogged down on "ship" obscures the reality of this matter.

All this reading of laws and interpreting them takes some effort…and risk of being wrong.
You know what’s easier? Take it to an FFL and have him ship it to an FFL…..im pretty sure they know the ins/outs and do it correctly ….not only easier for both involved parties but takes any liabilities off you guys. It’s not that hard

Does Sig2340 still post here?

quote:

Originally posted by cgode:
All this reading of laws and interpreting them takes some effort…and risk of being wrong.
You know what’s easier? Take it to an FFL and have him ship it to an FFL…..im pretty sure they know the ins/outs and do it correctly ….not only easier for both involved parties but takes any liabilities off you guys. It’s not that hard

As mentioned earlier in this thread, not all FFLs know the law. As Sigfest mentioned he got bad advice from one Ohio FFL and two Florida FFLs. What you suggest is certainly within the law, and with an FFL’s ability to ship handguns USPS, it may be cheaper than shipping directly to the destination state FFL yourself. It isn’t required though, and if one is going to be visiting the recipient in the destination state it would be prudent to find an FFL there and have a phone conversation ahead of time to insure he or she will handle the transfer, then just go to that FFL when visiting and get the transfer done.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it is also no reason to let a bunch of FUD complicate your life. Educate yourself, then make an informed decision.