They need to start building these self driving cars like a hearse. That way when we hover out of our homes on our floating lounges we can be rear loaded.

Tesla FSD is real world ai, not traditional software coding. Its learned/trained how to drive by watching actual driving scenarios by the best drivers. Its making decisions based on a 360 degree view. There is no other assisted driving system that is comparable. Tesla has spent over $10 billion on training compute. We are in the bottom of the 1st inning.

Here is the thing about autopilots, if you think you had better intervene then you better the fuck intervene. When they zig when they should zag they don’t give you any warning.

Here is the thing about stats. I agree that the average driver is worse than FSD or whatever everybody calls their version. That’s because the average driver is a raving distracted moron behind the wheel. I drive I-4 and a scary little freeway called 417 going to the airport every week. Never in my life have I seen more horrendous driving. Ever. Mind you I have lived in CA, TX, FL, RI, MD, ME, and driven all round those states. Nothing has prepared me for the idiots around here.

Long way to say of course a self driving car is safer than them. What about well rested, defensive, safe drivers, paying attention? Is the computer better than those people? I’m not so sure. A good pilot is better than a good autopilot every day. Autopilots let you relax, they don’t actually fly better in tricky conditions. That would be a study that would interest me. Not the stupid cell phone moron.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
How does all this automated driving do in really crappy weather, like sleet, icy roads, tremendous downpours, etc.?

It can’t handle low angle sun, worn paint, roads that are not clean plowed, to name a few situations I encounter on the daily.

What it’s particularly good at is miss interrupting road conditions. The line of snow that stands out? “Oh my god we are going to die” “I must take the wheel mortal” now we are mildly sliding isn’t that better than that controlled feeling?

When I want help it is worse than useless, the wheel feel I’ve developed over a million or so miles I can no longer trust. It can be turned off 17 miles at a time, taking control silently, ready at a moment’s notice to swerve into the breakdown lane that’s still covered with ice and snow.

I’m just about ready to avoid all vehicles that do not include ashtrays and cigarette lighters as standard equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
How would it navigate the bridge being repaired and down to one lane with barriers on either side and a detour that I drove through twice today?

your question should be when the barrels have been smoked and moved 5’ in random directions?

Autopilot in an otherwise empty sky has 2 pilots available to keep an eye on it. I have serious trust issues where the backup plan is bored and rubbing one out to the big screen on the dash.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
As much as we'd like to think we are all "good drivers", we'll never match the reaction time of the sensors and computers available now and in the future.

Now? Sorry dude, that’s manure. Future, yes, but not now. I’ve had ADAS almost cause wrecks because it wants to apply the brakes when I don’t want it to. Several times I’ve almost got rear ended when automatic collision detection/braking gets enabled and there was zero need. The system is on the vehicle and it’s an infant when it should be an adult. As someone above said, we are just in the first inning. ADAS is still in its’ infancy. Long way to go. You may need to swerve purposefully to avoid an object in the road. I’ve had it happen, last year in fact. Metallic object in the road that could have caused heavy damage. In that instance you don’t need to be fighting lane keep assist. You need the vehicle to do what you ask it to, not fight you to do it and do it immediately. Blanket crap is just that and it doesn’t cover everything.

I’ve done so much rider and driver training via track days, and professional instruction over the past 25 years that someone that says “I’m an excellent driver” sounds like Rainman. Have people had professional instruction post drivers ed and a state drivers test? I’d say for 99% of people out there the answer is no. Yet we still have safe drivers out there who practice SIPDE, have solid motor skills, solid reaction skills, and yes they can outdrive the computer, even today. Now if you want to talk your average dipshit out there jabbering away on a phone, in hand, or to an occupant, or eating, or surfing the phone, looking down at phone, excessively speeding when they don’t have the skills to do so, etc, sure. But I’ve found, locally, in these cases, ADAS is more of an enabler of very shit driving than it is a safety mechanism. I’ve never seen the driving so poor in all my life as it is today. Insurance rates keep going up, wrecks keep going up, yet all these vehicles have some sort of Hal9000 on them and it’s not mitigating shit. If it were, insurance rates would be going down, not up, and wrecks would be decreasing. Neither is the case. So we have a long way to go. And for these absolute dipshit drivers I see every single drive out of my neighborhood, every drive, anywhere, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, it’ll get better many years from now when these idiots just don’t drive at all. The vehicle fully drives itself requiring zero input from the smartphone addict. At that point it’ll get better. And Tesla wants to charge you $100 a month to be there crash test dummy? That’s a laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Are we really willing to give up the freedom inherent in driving yourself in favor of letting some system do it? Even if it is statistically safer?

Not a chance. Heck, I don’t even like cruise control.

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:


I’m just about ready to avoid all vehicles that do not include ashtrays and cigarette lighters as standard equipment.

And cozy wings

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Are we really willing to give up the freedom inherent in driving yourself in favor of letting some system do it? Even if it is statistically safer?

Not a chance. Heck, I don’t even like cruise control.

I personally believe that if we got rid of all the driver aids, in-dash screens, and forced everybody to use a manual transmission crashes would go down. Making the barrier to entry a little higher and forcing people to focus on what they're doing would be safer than trying to rely on electronic aids that lull you into a sense of complacency and inatentiveness, and bore people into pursuing other distractions when their focus should be on driving the car. Make driving more complicated and mentally demanding and people will get better at it. And it's more fun. My wife's little Mazda 3 is a hoot, even with the anemic little base 2.0 motor in it.

Sure you'd still get the road-racers who outdrive their abilities, but the vast majority of wrecks that I work are just basic distracted incompetence, not aggressive driving. And working the occasional dude who hit a phone pole at 100mph and then got ejected through the rear window after his car flipped 5 or 6 times is a lot more interesting than the upteenth soccer mom who hit a parked car or merged into somebody because she wasn't paying attention to what she was doing.

For people that have no issues driving, I would never use the FSD. But think about this, I know plenty of people who are elderly and cannot see well, cannot see well at night, whose reactions are cut slower and who generally do not like driving but still need to drive. We all probably have relatives like that, who drive as a necessity. For those people FSD is safer for all of us and it keeps us from having to drive behind that old guy doing 35 in a 55.

I think FSD will be useful when I get older. You may not admit it now, but every one of us will be at that point and most people who are at the point where they should not be driving will not give it up.

Plus, I see plenty of younger people watching videos or too busy texting to drive causing more hazards that FSD ever does. FSD will happen whether you want to fight it or not. You will also reach a point where it will both be useful to you and safer for you, whether you want to admit it or not.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Are we really willing to give up the freedom inherent in driving yourself in favor of letting some system do it?

Hell no.

You don't have to give it up - you just have to pay for the privilege of driving yourself in the future.

Well by any realistic metric, not really. Most people appear to think Tesla is the only self driving currently that actually might realistically approach self driving. They charge 100 bucks a month to RENT the feature. In what world is that a cost savings even with an insurance discount? If it is you have wildly expensive insurance.

The problem still will always be the fundamental misunderstanding of the term autopilot. It doesn’t actually replace attention. You still have to monitor it to intervene. In a car, in traffic, minimal distances, you have very little time to react before the “autopilot” makes the wrong decision.

The same buffoon who drives while eating, drinking, texting, and looking at directions won’t take the actual step of monitoring. They also typically aren’t driving the high end vehicles that have these abilities. Nor will they do the maintenance on them to keep them functioning correctly. It’s not a straight solve of the bad driver issue. It is a balm.

This is called "viral ad campaign" and they thank you for playing along.

They may do it, for a while anyway, with a ton of fine print making the limitations on when it's applicable so narrow that they never really have to pay out. And even if they do, they the attention this will draw will be well worth it.

To me this is one more aspect of autonomy and control we are surrendering. I won’t do it.

Driving lost all appeal to me years ago. I'd teleport everywhere if it were possible. And yea though I loves me some adaptive cruise control and blind side warnings, I'm afraid that's my limit for now.

As much as I'd like to simply be driven it seems like a long ways off when I really think it over.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
I spent the last 35 years of my career, until I retired 3 years ago, programming computers. No way I'd ever trust one to control my car. No way. There are just too many things that even the best programmers can't foresee happening.

And why would you possibly think that the programming would by done by humans? For now, certainly, but AI will undoubtedly "mature" to take over this function too. Cars will not only be self-driving, but self-programming too.

To quote Ken Jennings, "I, for one, welcome our new computer overlords."

Sign me up for teleportation.

quote:

Originally posted by stuffgeek:
You don't have to give it up - you just have to pay for the privilege of driving yourself in the future.

As long as I have the capacity to drive, I will pay for that privilege. Sports car romps on mountain roads, off-road 4WD, rural roads & driving around the family ranch in a real 4WD long-bed truck -- nobody's taking these from me. Especially a "WTF are they?" niche insurance provider that nobody's heard of before.

for anyone interested in the safety stats.

https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

Just because Tesla is first don't be ignorant to the fact that others are working just as hard on the same thing, and don't you for one minute think the insurance companies don't want to reduce payouts.

Now off road, sports cars, motorcycles are great and the whole point is the driving with those. But the vast majority of the human population are interested in going from point A to point B. as FSD makes that transit time more useful for them in some other way people will take advantage of that.

And regarding who lemonade is, they're a 10 year old multi national NYSE listed company with 527 million in revenue.

Quote from my father-in-law: "Some people just don't know how to drive!"

As he was driving the wrong way on a one way road.

This doesn't have to be all or nothing. I'd welcome FSD to let me take a nap when I'm tired. I'd absolutely use it as an available feature. I wouldn't want to have no choice. I'm still a few years away from that.