quote:

Originally posted by Trooperdan:
I don't think the governor will ever sign it

The governor a democrat. It'll be a cold day in hell if he signs it.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
As you are aware some sheriff's are delaying permits due to certain "mental health" checks.

In the counties where such is occurring, is this being done as a rule for every application, or only in instances where this is at least some indication that mental health issues might be present.

It has more to do with actually obtaining the records for the check than real mental health issues. I got my permit when I got here in '14, took exactly 45 days. Another pro-gun law was passed after that had some unfortunate wording with regards to the health records check and some less than enthusiastic sherrifs are using this to delay permit issue. So it is not necessarily because there are actual mental issues, and from what I have read it is pretty much blanket across all applications in these counties. The permits will get issued, it will just take longer than the state mandated 45 days to approve/deny.

What is the purpose of even having concealed carry or constitutional carry if someone can just post a sign saying you can't do it? I'm sorry, but if your private property is open to the public for public use or visitation, you should not have the ability to deny someone the right to do what they are legally able to do on the other side of your door or property line. Some may argue that you don't have to patronize that establishment but that is just another form of discrimination.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
As you are aware some sheriff's are delaying permits due to certain "mental health" checks.

In the counties where such is occurring, is this being done as a rule for every application, or only in instances where this is at least some indication that mental health issues might be present.

It is across the board. When you apply you basically sign a HIPAA waiver and they contact multiple healthcare institutions in the area including the VA and seek mental health records that would otherwise be privileged. I'm sure that will come back to bite anyone in the ass considering the have access to your medical records with out a court order.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
It has more to do with actually obtaining the records for the check than real mental health issues. I got my permit when I got here in '14, took exactly 45 days. Another pro-gun law was passed after that had some unfortunate wording with regards to the health records check and some less than enthusiastic sherrifs are using this to delay permit issue. So it is not necessarily because there are actual mental issues, and from what I have read it is pretty much blanket across all applications in these counties. The permits will get issued, it will just take longer than the state mandated 45 days to approve/deny.

Yes and they blame the the delay on the healthcare institutions for not returning the records fast enough.

I think it takes a way to intact an arrest away from the leo. Not good if suspect is in hand but time is needed to complete an investigation.
Maybe hard to understand the way I put it. But I know criminals are arrested for one thing while other bigger crimes are the main subject.
Illegal carry is a useful tool.

You know, I balk a bit at the idea of not letting property own decide what they want to allow on their own property.

Anymore, it seems like lots of folks are so scared of liability that they can't function rationally.

There are probably lots of reasons why this is a bad idea, but I could see a law where any property owner who prohibits carry assumes liability for anything that happens with weapons on the property unless they take all reasonable steps (armed security, metal detectors, whatever the current state of the art is). If someone attacks and defeats their reasonable security they are not liable. If someone breezes through their "security theater" they are liable. Conversely, if they don't prohibit carry, they are not liable for the acts or accidents that occur (with weapons).

I'd even settle for just the second half. I suspect that there are a good number of businesses that prohibit carry because they fear liability, or they thought their insurance would be more expensive or less available without prohibiting carry.

Florida CC / firearms law have no provision for businesses posting no firearms signs. There are federal / government administration / school building restrictions and a couple others, but nothing for stores, restaurants, malls, parks etc. For the most part, businesses don't even bother trying to post them, even chain stores that otherwise might post them in a State like NC or TX. On the rare instance though (I can count them on one hand), I have seen an otherwise ignorant or stubborn business post it but it's not enforceable.

I hope you guys in NC can work it out so that your law can be similar at some point. Actually if national carry can get through like driver's licenses, that would be a beautiful thing, especially for those that travel a lot or live close to state lines.

I tried to post an attachment of N.C. SB708 but, would not attach for some reason. It is also pertaining to CC. Loosely what it says is that people with CC permits would be allowed to carry anywhere a LEO could regardless of sign postings.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG 229R:
I tried to post an attachment of N.C. SB708 but, would not attach for some reason. It is also pertaining to CC. Loosely what it says is that people with CC permits would be allowed to carry anywhere a LEO could regardless of sign postings.

N.C. SB708 is from the 2015-2016 session, how is it relavent today?
N.C. HB 476 is from the 2017-2018 session, and is in play now, correct?

quote:

Originally posted by Trooperdan:
I don't think the governor will ever sign it

That guy? His veto's already been overriden twice.

quote:

That guy? His veto's already been overriden twice.

Wow I have not been paying attention! Really? I know we have a supermajority and can override. Depressing that 8 Republicans voted against this bill. Even more depressing that we have a democratic governor.

I am lucky that I am in a very conservative county, with a very pro 2A Sherrif. All of my reps, both federal and state are good to go. But I still write and call the others.

When I first got here the sheriff was not so 2A. He had been here for like 30 years. I remember his name from when I was here in 2001 and 2006. He finally "retired" when he knew he was going to be beat by our current sheriff. Matter of fact he was the one who signed my CCW. It was approved in 21 days (as by the Sheriff's signature) but he had it held for the full 45 days as prescribed by law until I could pick it up. Because he could.

I joined GRNC when I heard I was coming back here. It is the state equivalent of GOA.

The house I will die in will be in The Great State Of Maine, but until then, I will try my best to get NC free

Constitutional carry has been in effect in WV for nigh unto a year and, surprise surprise, no blood running in the streets, no rampant crime, no cats and dogs living together. I realize NC has a slightly more...diverse population around some major population centers, but if we can do it, so can NC.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG 229R:
I tried to post an attachment of N.C. SB708 but, would not attach for some reason. It is also pertaining to CC. Loosely what it says is that people with CC permits would be allowed to carry anywhere a LEO could regardless of sign postings.

N.C. SB708 is from the 2015-2016 session, how is it relavent today?
N.C. HB 476 is from the 2017-2018 session, and is in play now, correct?

I thought it was in play now; sorry my bad.

Maine got constitutional carry also, RIGHT after I finally switched everything over to NC and then applied for my ME non-resident. My ME non-res took 12 days. The bastards knew it was gonna happen and just wanted my $60 bucks

I lived in Alaska for 5 years, and Alaska had constitutional carry. I open carried while hiking and fishing (it's bear country and I carried a big bore revolver in a guide holster on my chest), and concealed carried the rest of the time. If I was OCing on a trail, and I came into a little town I just threw a windbreaker over the top. I don't recall reading any articles where the constitutional carry posed a problem for LEOs, and I never was stopped by a LEO. Criminals tend to try to hide that they're breaking the law so they typically cc. Seeing an open carried gun wasn't a big deal, and the only time it was memorable if it was a chick w/ a nice butt or somebody carrying something huge (e.g. 45-70 lever gun slung over the back in a really cool leather hiking scabbard).

Also, I lived in Alaska in '10 which was the year the federal gov't changed firearm laws in national parks to match the laws of the state in which the national park was located. I was one of the first people to OC while hiking in Denali National Park (had to lock it in my truck before entering gov't buildings and had to switch to bear spray the day we rode the gov't bus). Tourists (mainly foreigners) did snap pictures of me, but they sure liked to follow me around after seeing bear damage or bear scat.

I've been back in Texas for nearly a year, and while I was gone they passed the OC law. Texas has very specific no firearms signage laws that carry stiff penalties to permit holder but ONLY if the business follows the signage laws verbatim (30.06 sign for cc and 30.07 sign for oc). Unfortunately, some of the OC activists did some really juvenile things prior to passage of the OC law, and it resulted in many businesses who didn't previously have a 30.06 sign to put one up while they were putting up a 30.07 sign. Haven't seen it talked about on the news in a long time (they were when I first moved back) so it seems to have died down, and of course it helped that as always there weren't rivers of blood flowing in the streets like the anti2A dumb asses predict.

If it passes in NC, I'm sure it'll be like every where else. There will be lots of news coverage at first, it'll take time for businesses to decide where they stand, it'll take some training for LEOs. However, in the end a year later it'll be a non-event w/o rivers of blood flowing in the streets.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG 229R:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG 229R:
I tried to post an attachment of N.C. SB708 but, would not attach for some reason. It is also pertaining to CC. Loosely what it says is that people with CC permits would be allowed to carry anywhere a LEO could regardless of sign postings.

N.C. SB708 is from the 2015-2016 session, how is it relavent today?
N.C. HB 476 is from the 2017-2018 session, and is in play now, correct?

I thought it was in play now; sorry my bad.

My bad as well.
Seems I am a bit dyslexic.
N.C. House Bill 746

Status HB746
Unfortunately it still has the text which allows businesses to post a sign to discriminate against CCW holders.

I don't see roy cooper signing this unless a man is willing to wear a dress and carry the gun in his purse. That's what his voters care about.

In Arizona, after we swept up all the shell casings, removed the endless shot to death bodies and hosed down all the blood in the gutters, things went pretty much okay after that.

I don't like that businesses can prohibit carry, but we need to respect private property rights.

You just do not patronize those establishments and politely let them know, typically with a letter, what you are doing and why you are doing it. You would be surprised how many signs I have seen come down.

Truth is, I carry wherever I think it may be necessary, except prohibited places. But saying "never mind, nope" if the law doesn't force businesses to allow you to carry is short-sighted and does nothing for the cause.