I am not sure what he took pictures of that isn't already available in Navy press releases, documentaries, pictures, Jane's -
any host of information online. Presumably he made a mistake and paid for it. I am ok with the pardon, given the specifics of the situation, and hope he can move on in life.

Leaders set examples, leaders set the tone for how the organization runs. If the top leaders are showing corrupt behaviors, what do you think that says to the rank and file. Sorry, you can't have a FLOTUS, US Senator, Secretary of State and a Presidential candidate - corrupt as all get out, clearly in violation of the highest security handling codes - go untouched. Emails, servers, lies to FBI - what a fucking joke. And yet we throw the low level violations in prison. I doubt he was thinking "well Hillary is getting away with top secret violations, so I can just take a few pictures and no one will care." But examples start at the top.

quote:

I didn't vote at the top of the ticket, because neither one of them were worth it and the cost benefit comparison between the two was null.

Appears your expert analysis was grossly incorrect. If you couldn't see a clear difference between the two, wow. Anyways you have a new CIC, he's going to be there for a while.

Does not matter whether or not his pictures damaged national security, what he did was wrong. Just because someone got treated different under the same law, doesn't make it right. I don't care if he just took the pics to show his family.

Walker Family spy case. Bits of information consolidated over years did heavy damage to.the U.S.

I'm certain domcintosh is perfectly OK with the blatantly treasonous longterm behavior of Hillary Clinton. She should be POTUS, but this guy should be a felon.

Why would a sailor be permitted to work on a submarine with an unsecured device such as a phone with a camera?

That, right there is a security flaw.

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
Does not matter whether or not his pictures damaged national security, what he did was wrong. Just because someone got treated different under the same law, doesn't make it right. I don't care if he just took the pics to show his family.

Walker Family spy case. Bits of information consolidated over years did heavy damage to.the U.S.

Great example of Walker - who was intentionally spying and profiting from it. The exact opposite of this case. In fact that (intention) was the excuse used to NOT prosecute Hillary. The guy screwed up and should have gotten an Article 15 with punishment and a counseling statement - not a felony conviction and prison time.

quote:

Originally posted by BillyBonesNY:
Why would a sailor be permitted to work on a submarine with an unsecured device such as a phone with a camera?

That, right there is a security flaw.

The sub is also living quarters, so a lot of personal gear is kept.

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
I am not sure what he took pictures of that isn't already available in Navy press releases, documentaries, pictures, Jane's -
any host of information online. Presumably he made a mistake and paid for it. I am ok with the pardon, given the specifics of the situation, and hope he can move on in life.

Everything inside a nuclear engine room is classified especially inside a submarine engine room. I'm sure the Russians and the Chinese have a way of deadening sounds but I believe American submarines had or may still have the edge in how you make sure sounds inside the engine room do not transfer to the hull to broadcast your location.

I think it's the simple things such as noise deadening techniques that contribute to US superiority. I still remember when doing WestPacs, we would do emergency breakaways in the middle of underway repenishments when Russian bears would be flying over. The Russians did not have the capability or expertise to replenish their warships while moving at speed, they had to stop dead in the water to take on fuel and food. I learned to appreciate "American ingenuity."

How, if anything, does the pardon affect the other than honorable discharge?

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
How, if anything, does the pardon affect the other than honorable discharge?

Ankle braclet removed and much easier to obtain gainful employment without a felony conviction on your records.

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:


I didn't vote at the top of the ticket, because neither one of them were worth it and the cost benefit comparison between the two was null.

Do you actually think any of us believe you after your numerous posts that indicate just exactly who you wanted to win the WH?

The lot of you are blinded by idolatry if you think I wanted Hillary Clinton to Win. It is quite possible to believe that neither of them deserved the high office. As to my opinion on Hillary Clinton; she should be rightly fried per USC Title 18, Subsection (f), violation of the Federal Records act, and at the least destruction of evidence and conspiracy. My opinion on the former in full can be found here.

The sailor should not be serving, and most certainly not on a Nuclear Submarine. Integrity is the backbone of Navy Nuclear Power Propulsion, with immense trust put into the individual sailors that serve on-board. Kristian Saucier knowingly took a personal camera into the engine room: strike 1, and here we'd see some NJP and a divisional upgrade. Kristian Saucier knowingly took pictures in the engine room of a nuclear submarine: strike 2, with a stronger penalty, a formal investigation into the worthiness of his Security Clearance, NJP, and suspension of qualifications. He retained the pictures from his time on-board the USS ALEXANDRIA on his personal laptop, up until he was questioned by NCIS and FBI: Strike 3, see strike 2. Upon being questioned by NCIS and the FBI, he took specific measures to destroy evidence of his crimes: Strike 4, stacking up to felony charges, destruction of evidence, and the whole shabang.

Yes, the Submarine serves as a home when underway, with berthing, food, et al. However, personal cameras don't go past the water tight door into the engine room, or into the many other sensitive locations on the submarine. Photos and video are only allowed for specific maintenance events, with stringent controls on how the pictures are processed and verification of what is in the frame, what is captured, and what has been documented before the crew relinquishes control. "Unintentional" is not an adequate defense. You can't unintentionally violate training and guidance to take a camera into the engine room. You don't unintentionally take a picture of maneuvering. It isn't as if he but dialed a photo. Did he have no intention of sharing the pictures? Yes, by every account so far. Note: nefarious intent isn't a requirement for USC Title 18, Section 793. The same section the Hillary Clinton violated, and should have been fried under, if it weren't for the utter lack of integrity from Comey. Everything he said in his July 5th address was enough to burn her, until he assuaged it away.

Now, what were those pictures of?
"Naval and FBI investigators said in court filings that Saucier's telephone contained photographs of the ship's reactor, reactor compartment and maneuvering compartment, where the nuclear power, steam and electrical systems of the submarine are operated and monitored through control panels.

The investigators said that photographs of the control panels were of such clarity that gauges could easily be read, revealing the Alexandria's position at the time of the photograph, as well as its maximum speed, which is classified. An engineer reading the photos could "determine significant design characteristics of a U.S. nuclear submarine, including its reactor plant," the investigators said."

The photos of the maneuvering compartment are the most damning, because of the information that can be surmised through what is presented there. I've spent 3 years overseeing the operation of a Navy Nuclear Propulsion plant. The basic schematics, system design, operating envelops, and the like are all readily available from observing the control panels. This is by design to aid in operation and casualty response.

I was a never Trumper, but the position lost its merit since he is now president. Instead, I now judge him by the actions he's taken. The man isn't perfect. Tax cuts were great, all the lauds. Gorsuch was fantastic let's see more. Needs to hire people that are actually competent for his administration. The Damage caused by the tariffs will out weigh any short term gains. I'll admit he's done great things, which currently outweigh the list of bad he's done. Though, watching Diane Fienstein wickedly gleeful grin during the gun-control talks was rather disconcerting.

^^^^^^
You covered a lot but seemed to leave out the part of being convicted, serving his time and expressing remorse.

Another point. You stated:
"The sailor should not be serving, and most certainly not on a Nuclear Submarine."

The sailor is not serving.
He served his 1 year sentence in a Federal Penitentiary and is now driving a garbage truck.

It's your omission that is your crime.
Could you not have acknowledged that the Sailor was pardoned after serving his sentence.
Kind of a key point, don't ya think?

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
^^^^^^
You covered a lot but seemed to leave out the part of being convicted, serving his time and expressing remorse.

Another point. You stated:
"The sailor should not be serving, and most certainly not on a Nuclear Submarine."

The sailor is not serving.
He served his 1 year sentence in a Federal Penitentiary and is now driving a garbage truck.

It's your omission that is your crime.
Could you not have acknowledged that the Sailor was pardoned after serving his sentence.
Kind of a key point, don't ya think?

I had addressed that his time was already served in my opening engagement with the thread. The post to which you're responded was written towards the calamity that arose in response to my statement and the various insinuations about my favor for the New York She Devil.

quote:

I disagree with this man being pardoned. Great, he served out his prison term, but he still broke the law and violated the standards for controlling classified material. To start, why did he have a camera inside the engine room?

We don't 'equally' enforce the law, by excusing the little guys violation because you can't catch the big fish. You put in the work and fry them both. This isn't 'selective prosecution' because Hillary got away with it; just means she's smart enough to not make easy mistakes, or the system surrounding her was too corrupt to trust.

Elsewhere it was mentioned that this should have been handled as an NJP, without prosecution, with the implication being he should still be in the navy.

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:

Elsewhere it was mentioned that this should have been handled as an NJP, without prosecution, with the implication being he should still be in the navy.

IF NJP had been followed, he very well would have had his clearance revoked. He would have been awarded some restriction time and maybe some loss of pay and rank but he effectively would have been out of the submarine business.

He might have been able to continue a career in the Navy, but not in the nuke field-he might have been able to be a great machinist mate or engineman, or a myriad of other ratings that didn't involve classified material or retaining a clearance.

I don't see how one could think this pardon is excusing the little guy.

Trump was asked for the pardon long ago, but let him serve out his one year sentence.

If this sailor deserved to be fried, Hillary deserves at minimum electric chair, firing squad, lethal injection, and possibly hanging to cover only a small fraction of her crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I keep coming back to this thread like a sore tooth.

If the pardon was because the President believed the guy was innocent or that the punishment didn’t fit the crime, that’s one thing. But if so, wasn’t there an officer (Marine?) who was hammered for using a cell phone to pass on information about an impending attack because he couldn’t get through any other way? It seems to me that that would have been a far more deserving case.

If, however, it was just intended to be a dig at BJ Clinton’s wife I don’t see the justice in it. Some time ago (when I was in kindergarten, IIRC) I learned that two wrongs don’t make a right. If this guy did a wrong thing the fact that someone else did an even worse thing and got away with it is utterly immaterial. Such miscarriages occur all the time and there’s literally no way to absolutely prevent them. Our criminal “justice” system is subject to many serious flaws, but issuing a pardon just to make a political point would only weaken the system further.

sigfreund can always be counted on to make one think. I’d be shocked if this weren’t a political move. It seems that DJT plays four dimensional chess while others are playing checkers. Perhaps the mentioned Marine will also be pardoned, perhaps that will also serve a political end.

I’ve some time ago given up trying to figure out our President’s strategy, and I definitely don’t agree with everything that he has done or said. However, overall I am very happy with the direction he seems to have the country moving.

On this one (as with some others), I’ll bide my time and not be too surprised if I end up happy with the final result.

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:
I was a never Trumper, but the position lost its merit since he is now president.

Ha! Umm, yeah, no shit, man.

quote:

Instead, I now judge him by the actions he's taken.

Point me to just one remark you've made in this forum that's supportive of President Trump and I'll drop the matter. After all, given how well he is doing in the job, there must be something positive you have said about the man or his job performance.

It's just as with the news media- when they wrongly slam President Trump on some point and then get called for their "mistake", they say "We're only human", but isn't it odd that their "mistakes" never favor President Trump?

So, you just direct me to even one thing you've said about President Trump that's not critical of the man or his performance, and that will be the end of it.

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:
I was a never Trumper, but the position lost its merit since he is now president. Instead, I now judge him by the actions he's taken. The man isn't perfect. Tax cuts were great, all the lauds. Gorsuch was fantastic let's see more. Needs to hire people that are actually competent for his administration. The Damage caused by the tariffs will out weigh any short term gains. I'll admit he's done great things, which currently outweigh the list of bad he's done. Though, watching Diane Fienstein wickedly gleeful grin during the gun-control talks was rather disconcerting.

My postings here have been sparse as of late, with the demands of work, separating from the Navy, and moving on to civilian employment. Best I got is the close from above, though I've spoken well of Trump elsewhere:
Was Trump Right that there was violence on both sides in Charlottesville?
Why does Trump want to increase Military Spending?

Look who’s back...

Sailor jailed for classified pics SUES Obama/Comey for sparing Hillary

More power to him