DuckDuckGo joins Big Tech in filtering search results

March 10, 2022, 04:10 PM

tsmccull

Question for the group: I’ve been using DDG and hadn’t heard of Startpage. In checking their website they say all good things about privacy, but then I ran into this:

“Quality search results in true privacy.
Startpage delivers Google search results via our proprietary personal data protection technology.”

I’m confused. If startpage searches are repackaged google searching, is that an improvement? Don’t want to go back to google deciding what I can and can’t see in a browser search. I must be not understanding something here. Can someone clarify?

March 10, 2022, 04:14 PM

Balzé Halzé

For chrissakes, I installed the startpage search app on my phone, and the first time I tried to use it I was bombarded with ads. So much so it was unusable. I immediately uninstalled it. So much for that.

ETA: Brave works fine. I'll switch over to that for now.

March 10, 2022, 05:45 PM

mark123

I switched the SIGsearch page from DDG to Brave search.

March 10, 2022, 05:47 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by tsmccull:
Question for the group: I’ve been using DDG and hadn’t heard of Startpage. In checking their website they say all good things about privacy, but then I ran into this:

“Quality search results in true privacy.
Startpage delivers Google search results via our proprietary personal data protection technology.”

I’m confused. If startpage searches are repackaged google searching, is that an improvement? Don’t want to go back to google deciding what I can and can’t see in a browser search. I must be not understanding something here. Can someone clarify?

Your IP number, location and browser isn’t attached to the search at Google.

March 10, 2022, 05:48 PM

Modern Day Savage

quote:
Originally posted by tsmccull:
...

I’m confused. If startpage searches are repackaged google searching, is that an improvement? Don’t want to go back to google deciding what I can and can’t see in a browser search. I must be not understanding something here. Can someone clarify?

Start Page is a proxy search engine. Basically, the user types in whatever they are searching for, then SP searches using those search parameters, and then returns the search results to the user.

SP is using the users search parameters, but runs the search under their own internet identity. If it helps, think of SP as a buffer between the searcher and the searchee, a go-between, as a layer of insulation.

As I mentioned previously, I've been using them for about 10 years and it works, although sometimes it fails to yield as many results as Chrome. The problems I've had with SP is that it is increasingly being blocked by websites and also that users can't run searches while using a VPN.

March 10, 2022, 06:00 PM

Modern Day Savage

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
For chrissakes, I installed the startpage search app on my phone, and the first time I tried to use it I was bombarded with ads. So much so it was unusable. I immediately uninstalled it. So much for that.

ETA: Brave works fine. I'll switch over to that for now.

Odd. I've got an Android phone and Start Page app and never once received an ad, although I use cell data and disable as much as possible.

Once installed, the Start Page app has a setting to hide promotional material, that can be set either temporarily or permanently.

On my laptops there is no SP app, I just pull up the SP website when I need to run a search.

March 10, 2022, 06:47 PM

straightshooter1

Well duckduckgo is now residing in my MAC trash. And Startpage is taking its place on my desktop. We'll just have to see how it works, but I hope I don't have to go back to Google.

Bob

March 10, 2022, 07:00 PM

Keystoner

Damn it! Well, my Bookmarks Bar has an extra space now.

March 10, 2022, 07:07 PM

thumperfbc

quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
quote:
Originally posted by tsmccull:
...

I’m confused. If startpage searches are repackaged google searching, is that an improvement? Don’t want to go back to google deciding what I can and can’t see in a browser search. I must be not understanding something here. Can someone clarify?

Start Page is a proxy search engine. Basically, the user types in whatever they are searching for, then SP searches using those search parameters, and then returns the search results to the user.

SP is using the users search parameters, but runs the search under their own internet identity. If it helps, think of SP as a buffer between the searcher and the searchee, a go-between, as a layer of insulation.

As I mentioned previously, I've been using them for about 10 years and it works, although sometimes it fails to yield as many results as Chrome. The problems I've had with SP is that it is increasingly being blocked by websites and also that users can't run searches while using a VPN.

If I understand you correctly then the Startpage user is still subject to Google's algorithm and their decisions on what "boost" or feature in search results... it's just that my personal info isn't tied to the search?

In other words, not much better.

March 10, 2022, 07:37 PM

Modern Day Savage

quote:
Originally posted by thumperfbc:
...

If I understand you correctly then the Startpage user is still subject to Google's algorithm and their decisions on what "boost" or feature in search results... it's just that my personal info isn't tied to the search?

In other words, not much better.

One thing I'm not clear on is which engine(s) Start Page queries. Assuming for a moment that they do query Google, then yes, to an extent you are correct. You would be subject to whatever algorithm preference that particular provider uses... but keep in mind that part of the algorithm Google uses factors in the location of the user and what the user has searched before, and then tailors the search to what they believe the user wants. By using Start Page, Google (or whatever source(s) SP searches) no longer has the location info or search history to ID the user... they no longer 'recognize' the user and therefore can't tailor the search to the same degree of preference or bias.

I believe this is why many websites are starting to block Start Page searches... because they can't collect the user ID info that they previously had access to and used to determine preferences, bias, and to tailor for marketing purposes.

I should probably point out that once Start Page has reported its search results and the user clicks on a website, the user is interacting directly with the website and whatever info they collect or cookies they issue to those visiting their site. In other words, Start Page helps to protect the user during the internet search...but once the user clicks on a website they are on their own and will need to rely on the usual good internet security practices and whatever anti-virus software they use.

March 10, 2022, 07:51 PM

.38supersig

I used DuckDuckGo... to get the address for Brave.

March 10, 2022, 07:56 PM

kr350psd

quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig:
I used DuckDuckGo... to get the address for Brave.

I'm not very technically inclined. So I did the same.

March 10, 2022, 08:11 PM

thumperfbc

quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
quote:
Originally posted by thumperfbc:
...

If I understand you correctly then the Startpage user is still subject to Google's algorithm and their decisions on what "boost" or feature in search results... it's just that my personal info isn't tied to the search?

In other words, not much better.

One thing I'm not clear on is which engine(s) Start Page queries. Assuming for a moment that they do query Google, then yes, to an extent you are correct. You would be subject to whatever algorithm preference that particular provider uses... but keep in mind that part of the algorithm Google uses factors in the location of the user and what the user has searched before, and then tailors the search to what they believe the user wants. By using Start Page, Google (or whatever source(s) SP searches) no longer has the location info or search history to ID the user... they no longer 'recognize' the user and therefore can't tailor the search to the same degree of preference or bias.

I believe this is why many websites are starting to block Start Page searches... because they can't collect the user ID info that they previously had access to and used to determine preferences, bias, and to tailor for marketing purposes.

I should probably point out that once Start Page has reported its search results and the user clicks on a website, the user is interacting directly with the website and whatever info they collect or cookies they issue to those visiting their site. In other words, Start Page helps to protect the user during the internet search...but once the user clicks on a website they are on their own and will need to rely on the usual good internet practices and whatever anti-virus software they use.

… but! setting aside the algorithms, you are still looking at results filter by Google… so pages they don’t like are buried just as if you went to Google direct.

Which, as I recall, is what DDG announced they were doing as well and the catalyst for this thread.

In other words, they suck for unfiltered info just as much as Google.

*sigh*

March 10, 2022, 08:23 PM

skyline009

Just uninstalled it from all my computer, tablet and phone.

March 10, 2022, 09:46 PM

BamaJeepster

Para - thanks for the heads up on Brave Search. It's apparently still in Beta, but it does work and I have decided to go with it instead of StartPage.

I've replaced my old DDG bookmarks with https://search.brave.com/ and changed the default search engine in Brave Browser to Brave Search as well.

March 10, 2022, 10:05 PM

Bassamatic

Yup, to hell with DuckDuckGo.

If you are using Brave as your Browser (I am) just go to settings and then search engine and pick the one you want...of course Brave is there.

March 10, 2022, 10:48 PM

2012BOSS302

DuckDuckGone

Brave set to Brave

March 10, 2022, 11:48 PM

Paten

So DuckDuckGo filters Russian disinformation. How is that bad? All search engines are supposed to filter unreliable results. That's their whole purpose. And the results aren't eliminated, just down ranked. So it may not be seen on the first page of the results but you can still see it if you go deep enough.

So is the problem really the filtering or the virtue signaling?

March 11, 2022, 05:39 AM

XinTX

quote:
Originally posted by Paten:
So DuckDuckGo filters Russian disinformation. How is that bad? All search engines are supposed to filter unreliable results. That's their whole purpose. And the results aren't eliminated, just down ranked. So it may not be seen on the first page of the results but you can still see it if you go deep enough.

So is the problem really the filtering or the virtue signaling?

Have you been living under a rock?? Media and Big Tech have been slapping the "misinformation" label on anything they don't agree with. Year and a half ago you'd get banned on TwitFace if you suggested the WuFlu escaped from a lab as you were spreading "misinformation". Nowadays it's accepted fact. People are still being banned for spreading "misinformation" if they even suggest any level of irregularity in the last Presidential election. So who decides what is or is not "misinformation"? The Ministry of Truth perhaps?