I have a question about China's military ships, planes, killer missles, ground mechanization, and related materiel. At the risk of sounding like a stupid question, how does the quality of their stuff compare to the quality of USA and Nato equivalents ? So for example they have 5th generation fighter jets (or whatever is the latest and greatest), new ships, their latest missles etc. How does the quality and performance that stuff compare to ours and that of our Western Nato allies ?

If I buy a chinese made hand tool, and it falls apart in my hands the first time I use it, how do their newest fighter jets stay in the air ? Silly question at that level I know, but that's kinda sorta my stupid question.

I'm not saying China can't make good stuff, that would be silly, but that's still basically my question.

So our Top Gun combat pilot engages China's newest most capable fighter jet, I'd like to imagine out guys will smoke them nine times out of 10. But maybe not, I just don't know. It bothers me.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
If I buy a chinese made hand tool, and it falls apart in my hands the first time I use it, how do their newest fighter jets stay in the air ?

The pilots flap their arms really fast. Really fast, like a hummingbird. It takes years to learn this skill. Unless you're a hummingbird.

Fun fact: most hummingbirds are not Chinese fighter pilots. It can be confusing. About the hand tool, I mean.

China has an unproven military. We have Americans who have spent years fighting between OEF and OIF. I seriously doubt they have the most crucial part of war figured out: sustainment.

Training is great and all but when the targets start shouting back, that’s a whole new ballgame there.

China may have a lot of people but how many of them are actually professional Soldiers who are combat tested? Very few, I’d say.

While these past 2+ years have seen an exodus of war veterans, our military is still the best in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
when the targets start shouting back

YOU GO NOW!!!!

They've got 1 carrier and I am sure they launch russian aircraft from it. They've been building a lot of war ships. They built a cheap copy of our YF 22 and I doubt it has near as good avionics, radar and weapons. Doubt their actual stealth capability as well. To me their subs look like they've got a series of household screen doors on them for launching missles. We say its good that our carriers are mobil and hard to find at sea. The anti ship missles should be cause for concern. I think Argentina used old fashion silk worms from China, launched from French Super 8s quite effectivly against Britains ships. I believe 1 was lost. If they stuck to a conventional shooting war, we would be busy for a while but would take them down. WalMart and Amazon would not be pleased.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
They've got 1 carrier and I am sure they launch russian aircraft from it. They've been building a lot of war ships. They built a cheap copy of our YF 22 and I doubt it has near as good avionics, radar and weapons. Doubt their actual stealth capability as well. To me their subs look like they've got a series of household screen doors on them for launching missles. We say its good that our carriers are mobil and hard to find at sea. The anti ship missles should be cause for concern. I think Argentina used old fashion silk worms from China, launched from French Super 8s quite effectivly against Britains ships. I believe 1 was lost. If they stuck to a conventional shooting war, we would be busy for a while but would take them down. WalMart and Amazon would not be pleased.

I think Argentina use the French made Exocet anti-ship missle.

If they try and take Taiwan we'll find out.

They can bypass all the R&D by stealing it from us. Though I'm sure a lot of it is open source or easily handed over by their "assets" in the US. Life is cheap in China. They are not afraid to sacrifice soldiers for stuff we'd think unthinkable.

The Japanese, at a fraction of China’s manufacturing potential or population, hurt us quite badly in WWII.

We underestimate them at our peril. The only time we fought China directly, in a time they were still living in the pre-industrial era (Korea), we suffered severe losses.

Their entire military is built to counteract ours. Not Russia, not India, not any European power, but the US.

We would lose a crapload of ships, sailors and soldiers in any conflict with China.

All of this is just my opinion on China and its military:

• Their carriers are conventional and only have a range of so far without needing to be refueled. Same with most of their other ships.
  
• We have much more carriers, during a war, we may lose a carrier or 2, but have plenty of replacements and still be a global power. We would also make sure to destroy ALL of their carriers and manufacturing capabilities. Which would take them 10 to 20 years to catch up again.
  
• Our sailors are second to NONE when it comes to fighting shipboard fires and damage control during war time as there are very few other countries navies that have this experience.
  
• Our NCO's are the backbone of the US military. I have read several commentaries concerning other world militaries like the Russian and Chinese where their command structure and training is different from ours. We cut off their officers / leadership / command structure their enlisted soldiers are at a stand still and do not know what to do or have the initiative. Whereas our enlisted military have very knowledgeable NCO's that can still make command decisions, etc. I thought I remember reading last year where a Russian general had to visit his troops in Ukraine and instruct them on what to do, etc.
  
• As someone mentioned, we have actual combat experience from lower enlisted to upper officers.
  

I am sure there are more however I am not able to think of them right now. Thanks for reading and God Bless !!!

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
They've got 1 carrier and I am sure they launch russian aircraft from it. They've been building a lot of war ships. They built a cheap copy of our YF 22 and I doubt it has near as good avionics, radar and weapons. Doubt their actual stealth capability as well. To me their subs look like they've got a series of household screen doors on them for launching missles. We say its good that our carriers are mobil and hard to find at sea. The anti ship missles should be cause for concern. I think Argentina used old fashion silk worms from China, launched from French Super 8s quite effectivly against Britains ships. I believe 1 was lost. If they stuck to a conventional shooting war, we would be busy for a while but would take them down. WalMart and Amazon would not be pleased.

I think Argentina use the French made Exocet anti-ship missle.

I believe you are correct. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
All of this is just my opinion on China and its military:

• Their carriers are conventional and only have a range of so far without needing to be refueled. Same with most of their other ships.
  
• We have much more carriers, during a war, we may lose a carrier or 2, but have plenty of replacements and still be a global power. We would also make sure to destroy ALL of their carriers and manufacturing capabilities. Which would take them 10 to 20 years to catch up again.
  
• Our sailors are second to NONE when it comes to fighting shipboard fires and damage control during war time as there are very few other countries navies that have this experience.
  
• Our NCO's are the backbone of the US military. I have read several commentaries concerning other world militaries like the Russian and Chinese where their command structure and training is different from ours. We cut off their officers / leadership / command structure their enlisted soldiers are at a stand still and do not know what to do or have the initiative. Whereas our enlisted military have very knowledgeable NCO's that can still make command decisions, etc. I thought I remember reading last year where a Russian general had to visit his troops in Ukraine and instruct them on what to do, etc.
  
• As someone mentioned, we have actual combat experience from lower enlisted to upper officers.
  

I am sure there are more however I am not able to think of them right now. Thanks for reading and God Bless !!!

They've got 1 carrier..savvy. I think before we ever commit to war with China, we should just tell X.I. ping, screw it, we will just nuke the bastards from sea. Tired of global conflict. Our government has not done its job and protected our military tech. Same as giving it away. Just sit off their shore and listen to their lock n loll..lol. Sink that junk ass Russian carrier, long done wong.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
They've got 1 carrier and I am sure they launch russian aircraft from it.

The Chinese have 2 operating carriers, with a third launched and currently being fitted and undergoing trials:

Liaoning, commissioned 2012
Shandong, commissioned 2019
Fujian, launched 2022

They operate Chinese J-15 and J-15B aircraft, not Russian planes. (Although the J-15's initial design was partly based on the Russian Su-33.)

Their two operating carriers are older "ski jump"-style carriers based on the Russian Kuznetsov carrier class. But their third and newest carrier is a more modern design, and will feature a catapult launch system.

However, as noted by VBVAGUY, they're all conventional (non-nuclear) designs, and they lack the range and logistical support for significant global blue water operations. They're intended for regional power projection, and as testbeds to further develop and ramp up China's carrier operation capabilities and knowledge base.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackTalonJHP:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
when the targets start shouting back

YOU GO NOW!!!!

Damned autocorrect!!!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
They've got 1 carrier and I am sure they launch russian aircraft from it.

The Chinese have 2 operating carriers, with a third launched and currently being fitted and undergoing trials:

Liaoning, commissioned 2012
Shandong, commissioned 2019
Fujian, launched 2022

They operate Chinese J-15 and J-15B aircraft, not Russian planes. (Although the J-15's initial design was partly based on the Russian Su-33.)

Their two operating carriers are older "ski jump"-style carriers based on the Russian Kuznetsov carrier class. But their third and newest carrier is a more modern design, and will feature a catapult launch system.

However, as noted by VBVAGUY, they're all conventional (non-nuclear) designs, and they lack the range and logistical support for significant global blue water operations. They're intended for regional power projection, and as testbeds to further develop and ramp up China's carrier operation capabilities and knowledge base.

I think the Kuznetsov has had more fires and mishaps than a fire works show gone bad. Sabotage or just that Russian quality, the ship is not good.

Rogue, was it Bush Sr who parked a US carrier at China so they could tour and photograph? Certain that was the right thing to do. I recall the early on statement about China wanting a blue water Navy.

From my reading of various sources, I conclude that China's military hardware is very capable by global standards, perhaps as good as France, and certainly with greater throwweight. But they do not have the experienced manpower (sorry ladies) to be able to utilize it effectively, nor the resupply capability to sustain a fight. They are probably not as operationally capable, not having sufficient time in combat to discard what looks good on paper, but is ineffective in actual practice.

Some of the previous posters in this thread have pointed out Japan as a smaller nation that stood up a powerful Navy, that hurt us badly. Don't forget that, as an island nation, Japan has focused on seapower for centuries, and had a long tradition of men working as sailors (sorry, again ladies) to draw from, not to mention that they, a few decades previously, had learned many lessons about naval combat in their war with Russia, oh, and BTW, they initiated hostilities through a despicable sneak attack that almost disabled us before we got a chance to fire back. Ultimately, it was the inability to resupply their fleet, and replace ships lost in combat that led them to withdraw their fleet from open water conflicts back to their home waters where they languished until the end of the war. China does not have Japan's strengths in this area, and pretty much all of its weaknesses. They do have a much greater population, and significant manufacturing capability along with the stolen technology to hurt us badly, for a short time at least. (Questionable, would the Pentagon leak so badly if they didn't have back doors and intentional vulnerabilities in the leaked technology?)

China doesn’t care about force projection to the US coast, and the quality of our NCOs is really only relevant in ground v ground combat, which wouldn’t be the case.

In this case, the ocean that separates us from the world becomes a hindrance, rather than an asset. China wants to control the Asian landmass, as well as Africa. The entire strategy they have is therefore coastal defense, and land based anti-naval weaponry.

Our carriers aren’t exactly valuable if we can’t sail within 1000-1500 miles of any landmass in Asia or Africa, and losing “a couple” (we have 11 carriers) would mean the loss of 10k sailors just on the carriers, and if they sink those, they’ve probably hit a good chunk of the battle group as well… so call it 20k casualties.

China has nukes as well, so they are basically planning on playing MAD, kicking us out of Asia, ensuring they have control of the world’s major strategic resources (oil, rare earths, minerals etc), and then over time slowly creeping towards Europe after they consolidate a hold on Africa.

Our military is heavily dependent on satellites for our technological superiority, isn't it?

My worry with China is their anti-satellite development.
If they first take out a number of our military satellites, they bring our capabilities down a good bit.
Then, it's a more level playing field for them.

quote:

Ultimately, it was the inability to resupply their fleet, and replace ships lost in combat that led them to withdraw their fleet from open water conflicts back to their home waters where they languished until the end of the war.

Don't forget Japan's inability to replace their experienced, seasoned naval pilots lost early in the war. But then, that might fall under "resupply their fleet".