I’ve been in too much virtual trouble...

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^^^^^So apparently it didn't skid off the runway as initially reported, it missed the runway completely, and on its second attempt. How can something like that even happen?

I'm not throwing rocks, just explaining. It was snowing so low visibility, and there was enough snow on the ground to make it difficult to see details and differentiate between runway and taxiway or other. I believe they were flying the ILS, which is a ground based system and is subject to interference if the antenna(s) get blocked by other airplanes, vehicles, or in this case maybe snow buildup. The report says they were right of course on both tries, but we don't know (yet) whether that was a crew issue or the ILS equipment. It's possible they had the needle centered however interference with the signal itself actually put them slightly off course. That would mean when they reached the decision point on the approach they would expect the runway to be straight ahead, as would anyone in that situation. It's difficult to explain to people that have never been in the pointy end of an airplane approaching an airport at 120mph in conditions that make driving a feat. Not saying what they did was reckless or dangerous, it's pretty routine in our business. But as always there's very little room for error with equipment and/or people.

Interesting. Are landings on snow-covered runways customary?

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^^^^^So apparently it didn't skid off the runway as intially reported, it missed the runway completely, and on its second attempt. How can something like that even happen?

No, it was clear from the pictures that they were never close to the runway, but missed it entirely.

A number of pilots of that aircraft have reported being some distance off the runway, especially in a crosswind, when flying the instrument landing system (precision guidance to the runway.

When flying an ILS approach in instrument conditions, in a crosswind, the runway will not appear in front of the aircraft, but off to one side; the distance that it appears displaced from "12 o'clock" depends on the intensity of the crosswind, but it can be a significant illusion and it's possible, upon breaking out, to correct for the illusion and wind up off the runway. The pilot's job is to anticipate that and land on the runway. I suspect that in this case, the crew did not.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Interesting. Are landings on snow-covered runways customary?

Not unusual, if that's what you are wondering. It really depends on how heavy the snow is and how good the airport's snow removal program is.

One dark snowy evening, I was on approach to Colorado Springs in a Canadair RJ. In the 15 minutes between checking in with the Approach controller and breaking out of the clouds, the weather went from a 3000 foot cloud deck, and 6 miles visibility, to an "sky obscured" measurement in 1/4 mile visibility and heavy snow. At 100' off the ground I saw an unbroken sheet of white with a row of green lights and 3-4 dim white lights on either side of the runway letting me know where to land. The tower called and asked if we had landed and where on the runway we were. The answer was "Yes" and "We're not sure."

Now with my autoland system, this is less of a pucker factor, but regional jets don't have those.

Most larger equipment either doesn't have or isn't certified for autoland, either, and even in our widebody, we don't do autoland, or go below Cat I.

If it makes you feel any better, one of our standard requirements in the 747 for every checkride was a hand flown raw data NDB.

Ummm....most widebodies these days most definitely have autoland and Cat III capability. I have personally done Cat III autolands in Dubai, Frankfurt and elsewhere. Even our narrowbodies have HUDs and are good for Cat II approaches.

Sorry, you may now continue the main discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by furlough:
Ummm....most widebodies these days most definitely have autoland and Cat III capability. I have personally done Cat III autolands in Dubai, Frankfurt and elsewhere. Even our narrowbodies have HUDs and are good for Cat II approaches.

Sorry, you may now continue the main discussion.

I was curious about that too. I've only flown 3 widebodies, but they all can. Maybe an old DC-10, L-1011, or Classic 74. I know everything from the 80's on should be able to.

edited to add: After a bit of Googling, apparently the L-1011 had Cat 3 autoland as standard and the 747 classic and DC-10 had it as options. *Shrug*

The type design can be made to fly autoland, but the aircraft itself must be certified and maintained to that capability; it's added expense, along with keeping crew trained and current. It's only worth it if there's enough Cat III ops to justify the expense. For those operating those aircraft today, there's no way that's happening.

In the classic 747, we had three autopilots (or two, depending on the airplane), and triple-land capability, but the aircaft wasn't maintained to Cat III standards, and we didn't maintain crew cert. We experimented with doing Cat II, but couldn't justify it.

Most operators don't.

Jeezus...

The OP's question has been asked and answered. Time to put a lock down on this thread.

Thank god the thread police have arrived.

God forbid that anyone discuss anything other than the narrow original statement...never mind that most threads on this site, and every other have ample enough creep to actually have a conversation.

I honestly DGAS how many rivets it took to build "X" airplane. It happens in EVERY forum in which I've participated. A question is asked and before you know it, 8 posts in, NOTHING being discussed pertains to the original question at hand.

No offense sns3...and you've been in this aviation game way longer than I...but tell me how the last 5 posts have related in ANY form or fashion to the OP's question about a buddy of his hiring on at a Regional flying an Embraer 145??? If anything, I'd probably be the best source of information on the subject as I JUST DEPARTED a Regional airline this past September..FLYING AN EMBRAER 145. I just don't have the energy to sit around bloviating about aviation ON MY DAYS OFF.

That's why I have the . Some/most times these aviation threads turn into a conversation where one tries to outdo the other with his knowledge and everybody starts proving the other wrong just to prove who has the bigger schlong. IDGAS. Question was asked and answered about mid-way page 2. Best practice...START ANOTHER THREAD.

[Radar service terminated] . Frequency changed approved. Squawking 1200. Have a great day!

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
I honestly DGAS how many rivets it took to build "X" airplane. It happens in EVERY forum in which I've participated. A question is asked and before you know it, 8 posts in, NOTHING being discussed pertains to the original question at hand.

No offense sns3...and you've been in this aviation game way longer than I...but tell me how the last 5 posts have related in ANY form or fashion to the OP's question about a buddy of his hiring on at a Regional flying an Embraer 145??? If anything, I'd probably be the best source of information on the subject as I JUST DEPARTED a Regional airline this past September..FLYING AN EMBRAER 145. I just don't have the energy to sit around bloviating about aviation ON MY DAYS OFF.

That's why I have the . Some/most times these aviation threads turns into a conversation where one tries to outdo the other with his knowledge and everybody starts proving the other wrong just to prove who has the bigger schlong. IDGAS. Question was asked and answered about mid-way page 2. Best practice...START ANOTHER THREAD.

Frequency changed approved. Squawking 1200. Have a great day!

Left out radar service terminated....

DAMMIT!

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
DAMMIT!

If I ever get a layover in HOU, I'll buy ya a beer. Be fun to visit.

...1-2-0-0, Urrrrrj, good day...

Good rant ERJ, I consider myself chastised.

Lets take it to 123.45

To be fair, I WAS at work when I posted.

Maybe at 55 years of age, perhaps the thing that is motivating your friend is not money, a good schedule, nor simply travel. Maybe what is motivating him is a passion for what he is pursuing.... in his case, flying. If one engages as a vocation that which he (she) is passionate about, one will never have to "work" a day in their life. Ask me how I know...just sayin'

Hey guys, I’m on a ‘layover’ myself right now, at the Whittington Center here in Raton, NM. My Son and I are heading to the Grand Canyon area. This was about the right spot for the overnight, got a later start than ideal.

Cool grounds here, large, lots of ranges. A fair amount of mule deer roaming about. Since it’s slow now we got rooms with a shared living room, but no one else is here.

Anyway, tomorrow Page, AZ, after Ship Rock, Monument Valley, and Laje Powell.

No ‘auto-land’ in the Rockwell Commander either.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I’m curious, what about corporate aviation?

Is that a good job, or not? Pros and cons?

From my observation, it really depends what the corporate gig is.

Some larger companies have a corporate fleet, some corporate fleets support a group of companies, and some are like taxi (netjets, etc).

The ones I see do a lot of waiting for passengers in the FBO, emptying the toilets, cleaning the planes, making sure the food is there on time and just what the customer ordered. Another guy I know flies for one family who schedules flights far in advanced, he has a flexible schedule and loves it.

So it really depends.

I had a pretty nice deal going, in corporate flying. There are a couple of local companies that do business at locations that are either not served at all by airlines, or the business schedules do not mesh with the airline schedules, so that a day would be wasted for travel.

Both of these companies own airplanes to handle these situations. The trips, for either company, are not frequent enough to justify a salaried pilot on staff, so each company has a pool of two or three qualified pilots who will work on contract for a daily fee. I was in the pilot pools for both companies. I ran my own business and did not depend on flying for primary income, but it sure was nice to pick up an extra day's pay, maybe a few days for an extended trip.

When they needed a trip flown, they would contact a pilot in the pool. When they contacted me, I could make most, almost all, of the flights that they wanted. If I was scheduled for something else, they would just move to the next pilot in the pool.

My typical workday consisted of me getting to the airport an hour and a half, maybe two hours, before the flight. A thorough inspection of the airplane, especially anal if somebody other than me had flown the previous trip. Fuel it as necessary, make sure that a copy of the WSJ was at the boss's seat, the cooler stocked with bottled water, etc., and ready to go when the client(s) arrived. Fly to destination, relax in the pilot lounge while client does business, maybe grab a nap, read a book on my Kindle or get some work done on my laptop, and then the trip home. Notify maintenance if there is anything that needs attention. Easy way to stick some extra money in the bank.

Several times, the trip was to take the owner and his wife for a few days in the Bahamas. It was less costly for them to keep me there, than it would have been to pay me to deadhead home with an empty airplane and then fly back to pick them up. So, I got paid my daily rate, plus lodging and meals, to stay in some very nice places that I would not have been able to afford if I were paying for it.