One of my close friends just surprised me with the announcement that he has signed on as a First Officer with the regional affiliate of a big 3 airline.
He is in systems training now, and in a few weeks will be getting his check ride and type rating in an EJR-145(?). Then he goes on the 'reserve pool' list and starts building hours and seniority.
This is a guy who has flown recreationally for years, and started getting serious about 4-5 years ago. He's married, 2 teenage kids, and owns his own business.
His plan is to keep working part time - I suppose calling him an absentee owner - at his company, working around his airline schedule.
So... is he crazy to think he can do both? Is becoming an 'airborne bus driver' (term tossed out by a mutual acquaintance, not me) going to crush his love of flying?
Would you have taken the leap, knowing what you know, at age 55?
Thanks for your perspective.

Not a pilot, but I play in a band with one for a major airline. He's been with them for a while, was right seat forever and, while right seat, had a ton of seniority and made his own schedule. I think choosing his fly days was like crossing off boxes on a March Madness grid. Once he got promoted to left seat, it was off to a month of training and bottom of the seniority totem pole. What little choice he has now, he has to make about a month in advance. Band practices are very tough to reschedule if anything comes up, since his days off are scheduled way, way in advance.

Regional flying varies somewhat with the company, but to some degree can be soul-killing. He may be suffering from shiny-jet syndrome, which like honeymoons, won't wear off for about a year until he wakes up and realizes where he is. By then it may be too late.

I'm not a professional pilot but just looked this up and found it interesting.

My only question about your friend is that at 55 years old, his maximum time to build up hours and start making any real money is 10 years.

Mandatory retirement age is now 65 but I don't know if that will work against him.

https://www.marketwatch.com/st...get-worse-2018-07-13

If he is 55, he isn’t likely to get on with a major and build any seniority before mandatory retirement.

That said, it is his life. If he owns his own business and can keep it afloat by remote control while he tries this and he doesn’t have family obligations, why not?

On his deathbed, he might laugh and say, “That was silly playing airline pilot for a year or two before going back to the business.” but that would be a whole lot better than lying there moaning about, “I wish I had when I had the chance.” Most folks regret the things they didn’t do a lot more than the things they did.

I’m 55 with an appropriate license for that gig and enough hours to get on somewhere, but I am having too much fun with the teenagers and farming. I definitely get the idea of flying cool equipment, getting paid to do it, and having no fuel or maintenance costs though...

A few years ago I'd have said one would be an idiot to try a regional at 55, especially with a good life. The regionals have changed in scope from what they were not too long ago; everything involves turbojet aircraft, nicer equipment, and the pay is substantially higher than what it was. This all came about following the crash of a Colgan Air flight ten years ago in Buffalo, NY.

Subsequent legislation mandated that anyone flying for an airline must have a minimum of 1,500 hours, and be qualified to receive an airline transport pilot certificate (ATP). Up until then, the airlines were hiring 250 hour pilots with no experience or qualification beyond a fresh commercial. The airlines paid below-poverty wages, and as most all regional pilots commute to their job, it made for long hours and days, a dirt-poor income, and a top-ramen and peanut butter diet.

Regionals found themselves with fewer applicants from which to choose, as they couldn't draw right out of the flight schools, and a self-created "shortage" at the regional level developed. Regionals were forced to increase wages such that now first officers enter at what captains were making, and some airlines are offering incentive hiring bonuses of 25,000 or more to come on board.

Put another way: I spent fifteen years trying to get into a turbine airplane in the first place. New pilots go there right away. I was twenty years getting to an airline. The opportunities that kids have today (and not-kids, too) are far and away different than what they were; possibly some of the best the industry has ever seen.

Airlines are not the only game in town, either.

If it's one of the things he always regretted not doing and is now going to get it in before he can't anymore, then sure give it a shot.

The schedules are going to beat him up. What you didn't say is if he lives in the same city where he is going to be based. If he has to commute, that is going to beat him down just as fast, if not faster, than the schedules. It IS possible to run a business and fly. I know multiple people who do it, but the partner better be onboard fully. It's most likely NOT something he will be able to pull off all by himself.

He only has 10 more years in the industry if he stays for a full tour, and he will not likely be hired by the majors at this point, though miracles happen, I suppose, but that's just starts the seniority climb all over again.

Will it kill his love of flying? Probably not. My job is better than any other job I can imagine, but it is still a job. I haven't flown for "fun" in over a decade.

Knowing what I know, would I take that jump? No. I'm not him though.

Also, how good do you think he will be taking potentially life or death orders and decisions from someone half his age? It's going to happen.

Get the type rating even if SIC,then look for a job as SIC on a Legacy 600 series. Same type rating, lot more money.
My first SIC came from a regional,tripled his pay and got to see the world

Which Regional carrier is it and where does he live?

To answer your question as to whether or not he is crazy...well that depends. What your bud has to understand (and what others have mentioned), life starting out in the airlines is all about SENIORITY, or lack thereof. He is going to be on the bottom of the totem pole as far as his schedule is concerned, so he will be on "reserve" for a time, and that means he'll know the days that he's on call, but he has to be able to report to the airport within (normally) 2 hours should he get called to fly. Even as he moves up the ladder in seniority, his schedule is still going to suck, because he will be getting a schedule that is very junior and that will have minimum days off...usually 11 or 12, depending on the airline for whom he works and what their contract/work rules are.

I'll give you an example of how bad it can suck. Last March 2018, I had been at ExpressJet (XJT) for 13.5 years. There was so little flying handed down to us from United through Skywest (they owned XJT at the time), that I was on RESERVE that month. It's UNHEARD OF (at least to me) to be at an airline for that long and be on Reserve. However, that's how it is sometimes at the Regional level. But I will say this...no matter how badly it sucked at ExpressJet at times and for the last 2-3 years I was there, I can honestly say my worst day there beat ANY best day I ever had in the business world. And I can also say that I've never been furloughed, so I've got that going for me.

I don't regret for one minute leaving the business world after 20 years to build my path into a flying career...wouldn't exchange it for anything. And FYI...I was an "old-timer", as I had just turned 44 when I finished IOE at Continental Express (ExpressJet). So I REGULARLY flew with Captains who were way younger than me, but I called them sir and ma'am and absolutely gave them the respect they had EARNED.

If life doesn't get in the way, your buddy will love the career. If family gets in the way or doesn't understand, it can be miserable.

Remind your friend that there are only three things that a First Officer should say to a Captain:

1. "Nice landing, sir."
   
   
2. "I'll buy the first round."
   
   
3. "I'll take the fat one."

Sure, why not? Steve Morse did a short stint between being a guitarist for Kansas and then Deep Purple.

If he has the business situation figured out, he can fulfill a dream. If it doesn't work out, he can quit the regional and go back to his business.

Toward mid-february, I was in danger of going "non-current," meaning I"d have to go back to the simulator because I didn't have enough landings in the prior 90 days.

I flew quite a bit in November, but had one flight and one landing in December. One in January. I managed to get three landings in February just before the deadline, to stay current, legally, but it took about 35 hours of flying and two dozen countries and a series of 10-20 hour commutes to do it.

On the other hand, I had a lot of time in hotels, and a lot of time at home, and the hotel time was pretty close to free time. I had an entire month at home over the Christmas period, got to shoot steel matches, do stuff with the family, etc.

I do several things; the airline world is just part of that, but I still have a certain amount of freedom that I wouldn't enjoy with other kinds of work. There are distinct disadvantages; not a lot of other jobs have such long commutes, work on both sides of the clock and across so many time zones, or so many days spent not in one's own bed in a given week, month, or year, to say nothing of the diversity of food and potential gastric issues, exposure to disease, etc. In any given week I may be in a combat area in Afghanistan, or an ebola area in Africa, often within a day of each other. Conversely, no other job has as good a window view, and I do get paid to eat out in Paris, Dubai, and Hong Kong. Sometimes.

Regional flying, not so much, but some say that find something you like doing, and you'll never work again a day in your life. I think that was Twain, and it's a nice sentiment for the first 48 hours, but not so much after. Ag (crop dusting) was the same way; fun until it became work. The regional pilot gets to fly more, which let's face it, is the reason that many get into that line of work. They love aviation, they love to fly, and that's something that pilots at regionals tend to do more of; more legs in a day, more landings, more hours. Regionals have faster promotions; one will (usually) upgrade to captain much faster at a regional, especially these days, than at other types of operations.

I've known a number who tried the regional thing and bailed before the ball really got rolling. It wasn't what they thought. Some stuck it out and liked it, some stuck it out and didn't, for some it was a stepping stone, for others not so much. Worst case, try it, and move on. Best case, try it and love it. Most fall somewhere in between.

I see a fair amount on flying forums looking to do a career change INTO full time piloting later in life. It all depends on the individual, family support helps if married with kids.

Yes, flying has a strict seniority system for positions and schedules. Starting pay is better than it was 10 years ago.

Most that fly for a living enjoy it, though there are some exceptions mixed in.

If that is what he wants, I say good for him. Plenty of pilots have a side business or interest. He may be somewhat absent as he works up in seniority some.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sourdough44,

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Which Regional carrier is it and where does he live?

He lives about 15 minutes from EWR, and will be at Dulles for another week, then down in Houston for a time, before he comes home again. Initially, I think he expects to be based at EWR.

Ok...so which regional carrier? CommutAir? ExpressJet? Endeavor? I could help answer questions if he’s at ExpressJet. And I’m thinking it’s NOT ExpressJet, as they have nothing in Dulles.

Sounds like Republic.

Seeing as he’s already decided to give it a go I see no reason to try to dissuade him. Lots of guys are entering the industry at a later age now and we are going to need more pilots in the future. Even with only 10 years to fly part 121 that’s enough time to make Captain at a regional and maybe give him 3-5 years at a major. Won’t make big money, but will get to say he did it and fulfilled a dream. Good on him.

Plenty of pilots have side gigs, that probably won’t be an issue. Plus it gives him a fallback in case he decides that he hates the airline lifestyle. It’s not for everybody.

He told me the carrier name, but I can't recall it. I was hoping the pieces I did remember would be enough... not trying to be evasive. It is D/B/A United Express.

Sigfan Roy - I'm positive that he's not doing this for the money, but is looking to fulfill the lifelong dream. So in that respect, gotta support him 100%.

Otto - you kinda hit the nail with your observation that you no longer fly for fun. I hope that doesn't happen... I've always enjoyed flying with him from the 172/Arrow days in the beginning, thru the Commander, and up to the Aztec he has a share of now.
Lots of $100 hamburgers over the years, as well as right seat time working the radios, nav, etc. I'd miss that quite a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by motor59:
He told me the carrier name, but I can't recall it. I was hoping the pieces I did remember would be enough... not trying to be evasive. It is D/B/A United Express.

Sigfan Roy - I'm positive that he's not doing this for the money, but is looking to fulfill the lifelong dream. So in that respect, gotta support him 100%.

Otto - you kinda hit the nail with your observation that you no longer fly for fun. I hope that doesn't happen... I've always enjoyed flying with him from the 172/Arrow days in the beginning, thru the Commander, and up to the Aztec he has a share of now.
Lots of $100 hamburgers over the years, as well as right seat time working the radios, nav, etc. I'd miss that quite a bit.

I'm a Yacht Captain and enjoy what I do for work. However, I don't go boating for fun either anymore. So yes, you can enjoy your career if it was a passion before it became a career, but it's not what you do when you're not working.

I’m curious, what about corporate aviation?

Is that a good job, or not? Pros and cons?

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I’m curious, what about corporate aviation?

Is that a good job, or not? Pros and cons?

Dont have many specifics, but have 3 pilot neighbors. 2 commercial & 1 corporate. The Corp pilot is married to one of the commercial & she seems to like it.