I don't think these batteries are going to replace regular generators, but they're a real nice tool to have in the box. I've got a smaller Bluetti that I use at work three days a week. Runs my laptop all night, bring it home in the morning and it's recharged in an hour. Looking forward to taking it camping this summer see what else I can do with it.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
That said, it seems like if you can afford this fancy solar system you can also afford the Honda at the same time, so it's not an either/or, and I bet most who have the fancy solar setup also have the option of gas too. Then you no longer have that dreaded "single point of failure."

Our house is off grid solar with a (noisy, sigh) backup propane 8KW generator for those rainy weeks. After a hiccup with the generator I put in a manual transfer switch and a four pronged outlet so I could bring up the diesel powered arc welder (noisier still, but 10KW) as a backup to the backup. Mechanical and electrical things will have issues. There is value in a layered solution.

It's been a while but I hooked up the solar panel and faced it at our low April morning southeast sun and was pulling in 82 Watts. Clouds will lower it to 30 watts. Colorado is currently experiencing a blackout due to high winds (Marshall fire lessons). GMRS repeaters are on down and on battery backup and one with solar. As T.R. says, "Do the best you can, With what you have, Where you are."

quote:

Originally posted by sig226fan:
I have the EcoFlow Delta 2 and Delta2 Max solar generators with extra battery for each.

Can they be operated and functional without the phone app/bluetooth/fancy-dancy technocrap?

I suppose it is incorrect to call these devices 'generators'. They are sophisticated power banks.

With regards to the pros and cons of these devices and liquid fuel generators, it seems to me the solution is to have one or more of each. If liquid fuel is not available, the sun shines much of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by sig226fan:
I have the EcoFlow Delta 2 and Delta2 Max solar generators with extra battery for each.

Can they be operated and functional without the phone app/bluetooth/fancy-dancy technocrap?

The River Pro connects via wifi. I have a little Samsung tablet pretty much dedicated to the app. Like an oof, I had slow charging enabled so the solar charging was only half of it's potential. Other features like the PowerBoost also requires the app interface. Not sure what solar generator these days doesn't have some sort of IoT interface. It's also nice to look at the tablet screen compared to waking up the generator display to see the Watts in/Watts out.

For comparison, This little LiFePO4 is $50 cheaper than I paid 2 years ago.

BLUETTI Portable Power Station EB3A, 268Wh LiFePO4 Battery Backup w/ 2 600W (1200W Surge) AC Outlets, Recharge from 0-80% in 30 Min., Solar Generator for Outdoor Camping (Solar Panel Optional) https://a.co/d/8Jikyvi

I've been trying to talk myself into one for a little while now and was looking at Jackery and Bluetti. I hadn't heard of this company so I guess I have more homework to do.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I suppose it is incorrect to call these devices 'generators'. They are sophisticated power banks.

With regards to the pros and cons of these devices and liquid fuel generators, it seems to me the solution is to have one or more of each. If liquid fuel is not available, the sun shines much of the time.

The unit in your initial post becomes a generator if you add solar panels to it. The company sells that unit and 3-400 watt solar panels for $5,500. The downside is that combination weighs 205 pounds and produces ¼ of the electricity a $1,200 48 pound Honda generator will in a day.

In fairness, I didn't include the weight of the gasoline in with the Honda, 157 pounds is about 22 gallons of gas. The price difference is about 1,200 gallons of gas.

You could forget the solar panels and charge the power bank with the Honda, but you'll lose efficiency, maybe 10%, charging the power bank rather than using the electricity directly from the Honda and maybe another 10% converting the battery power back into 120v AC. In other words, there could be a 20% loss in usable electricity by charging the power bank with the Honda and running you stuff off the power bank vs just running your stuff off the Honda directly.

I have the 4Patriots Sidekick and the larger 1800 (watt) to use if the power is out temporarily. I believe they may have larger units now. These are not for running the house, or for everyday living if the power grid is down. Can run the fridge or hotplate and make coffee (priority #1 ) if I need to and get modest recharge by sunlight in most weeks. These would also run lights, TVs or fans, charge phones. This assumes phones work, and cable is operating, LOL. Good for camping, road trips.

I see this as a good temporary back-up only, not exactly long term normalcy. Most solar household units would still have limitations, and that the good gas or LP powered units are better if that is your goal.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The downside is that combination weighs 205 pounds and produces ¼ of the electricity a $1,200 48 pound Honda generator will in a day.

Until it runs out of gas.

Unless you've got $100,000 burning a hole in your pocket, no system, by itself, is going to give you what you want or be perfect. I see these solar units as a very viable plan B.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Can they be operated and functional without the phone app/bluetooth/fancy-dancy technocrap?

Short answer is yes. I have the Ecoflow Delta Mini and River 2. I don't do smart phones or apps. They work just fine. It's possible that there are more functions that I don't use but, since I don't use em I don't need em. River 2 stays plugged in as electronics backup. Delta comes out when needed.

The multi-layer thing is actually a thing.

Also, a lot of people don't understand the basic math behind operating and charging these "generators".
On the usage side, I have a Bluetti 2kw unit which I've tested a fair amount and can operate 2 reasonably efficient refrigerators for a couple of days. The caveat being that that depends on neither of them doing a defrost cycle during that time. If they both do a defrost cycle, I only get 1 day out of it. I have 8 solar panels with 840w worth of charging capacity, in theory I can recharge the "generator" in ~3 hours of good to great sunlight IF it's NOT being concurrently used.

Regarding charging, I always laugh when I see that 4Patriots ad that touts its 2 kw capacity and "free" solar panel. I think people see that ad and think that a single 100w solar panel is going to be sufficient when applying the "generator" in a multi-day power outage (post hurricane?) type event. Even if that 100w panel was 100% efficient, it would take ~20 hours of really good sunlight to recharge that unit, assuming you're not also using the "generator" during that time frame. That's likely multiple days to "recharge". Also, if you're buying extra panels pay attention to the solar input capacity ratings, they're likely lower than you think.

There's some basic wattage "in" vs "out" math you need to do depending on how you might foresee your planned usage on these "generators".

I have a whole house natural gas Generac, a backup LP/gasoline powered 240VAC 6kw portable, and the Bluetti 2kw single phase, the usage scenario drives the plan for using any one of them...

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The downside is that combination weighs 205 pounds and produces ¼ of the electricity a $1,200 48 pound Honda generator will in a day.

Until it runs out of gas.

Yes, after 2 years and 20 days and nights of continuously producing the same amount of electricity the Ecoflow unit with 3-400 watt panels can produce, the Honda will run out of gas and the Ecoflow becomes more cost effective.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:
The multi-layer thing is actually a thing.

Also, a lot of people don't understand the basic math behind operating and charging these "generators".
On the usage side, I have a Bluetti 2kw unit which I've tested a fair amount and can operate 2 reasonably efficient refrigerators for a couple of days. The caveat being that that depends on neither of them doing a defrost cycle during that time. If they both do a defrost cycle, I only get 1 day out of it. I have 8 solar panels with 840w worth of charging capacity, in theory I can recharge the "generator" in ~3 hours of good to great sunlight IF it's NOT being concurrently used.

Regarding charging, I always laugh when I see that 4Patriots ad that touts its 2 kw capacity and "free" solar panel. I think people see that ad and think that a single 100w solar panel is going to be sufficient when applying the "generator" in a multi-day power outage (post hurricane?) type event. Even if that 100w panel was 100% efficient, it would take ~20 hours of really good sunlight to recharge that unit, assuming you're not also using the "generator" during that time frame. That's likely multiple days to "recharge". Also, if you're buying extra panels pay attention to the solar input capacity ratings, they're likely lower than you think.

For those with a gas generator and one of these solar "generators" , is there some reason to not just charge the solar "generator" with the gas generator and only use the panels as a last resort, given the drawbacks of solar charging that you stated above about the slow charging??

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
For those with a gas generator and one of these solar "generators" , is there some reason to not just charge the solar "generator" with the gas generator and only use the panels as a last resort, given the drawbacks of solar charging that you stated above about the slow charging??

I've done it with a small 800W inverter. No reason not to. (unless you're out of gas) Full charge on the Ecoflows in 1 hr.

quote:

Originally posted by pace40:

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
For those with a gas generator and one of these solar "generators" , is there some reason to not just charge the solar "generator" with the gas generator and only use the panels as a last resort, given the drawbacks of solar charging that you stated above about the slow charging??

I've done it with a small 800W inverter. No reason not to. (unless you're out of gas) Full charge on the Ecoflows in 1 hr.

Or, with the unit I have and most out there I suspect you can simultaneously do both, or even use a vehicle connection (12v electrical). It'll save some time and money or even allow you to charge when otherwise not possible using just solar.

It never hurts to have options...

Lot of similarities to EV's, limited capacity, long times to charge, high cost to entry.

At this juncture a small one to take camping for limited power use makes sense, no gas to carry, although a siphon system for a gas tank from the vehicle could provide fuel for the generator, then, when done, drain the generator and put left over gas back in the car.

For home use, the cost to available power ratio favors gas/propane/diesel, with my 5500 I can run the whole house for days, sans AC, and probably could run it with a soft start on it, I need to look into that soft start stuff.

Increasing the generator size to a 7500 would easily run it, have 4 5 gallon cans, takes just under two a day, a new dual fuel could be powered off the 100+ gallon propane tank we have.

Other option would be to install whole house solar with power walls, not cheap but you can lease or finance it and eliminate the payment to the power company, so zero cash flow change if done correctly and you have plenty of off grid power.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
For those with a gas generator and one of these solar "generators" , is there some reason to not just charge the solar "generator" with the gas generator and only use the panels as a last resort, given the drawbacks of solar charging that you stated above about the slow charging??

Loss in efficiency vs just using the generator directly. I’m not sure as inverters and chargers are more efficient than they used to be, but on my boat many years ago it was 30%. Charging the batteries was a 15% loss. In other words, it would take 100amp/hours to put 85amp/hours in the batteries. Then when using my 1500 watt Heart inverter for AC power, I’d lose another 15%. I’d guess with today’s chargers and inverters the total loss would be between 10% and 20%.

Another thing to keep in mind about solar generators is that, at power or storage levels of 3KW and above, your fellow taxpayers (i.e., the government) will reimburse you 30% of the cost of the system via end-of-the-year tax credits. These continue to be available for some number of years in the future. Maybe about ten or so?

There is no shortage of choices.
Found this, this morning