Why has the 25th amendment never been used?
1. It's relatively new.
2. It's not easy to do.

But... after the debate last night, I wouldn't be surprised if Kamala Harris makes an attempt to go the 25th Amendment route. However, it would be much easier and far better for her election prospects if Biden were able to be convinced to voluntarily step aside.

So, how would it work?

Constitutional Amendments – Amendment 25 – “Addressing the Presidential Succession Process”



Portrait of John Tyler, the first vice president to ascend to the presidency after the death of William Henry Harrison, c. 1861. (Library of Congress)

Amendment Twenty-five to the Constitution was ratified on February 10, 1967. It established and explained the complete order of presidential succession, as well as a series of contingency plans to fill any executive vacancies. The official text is written as such:

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

According to Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the “powers and duties” of the president are given to the vice president in case of the former’s removal from office. While the line of succession from president to vice president is clearly implied and understandable in context, the question of what exactly “devolves” to the latter is not explained further. The lack of a detailed explanation of the presidential powers being transferred led to a series of succession disputes. In response to the sudden death of President William Henry Harrison in 1841, John Tyler became the first Vice President in U.S. history to fill a vacant presidency. Rather than only taking up the “powers and duties” of the vacant presidency, Tyler insisted that he was now the President of the United States. Being the first time such a scenario took place in the young American republic, many sitting Congress members opposed and disputed Tyler’s ascension, some arguing that he had misused the Presidential Succession Clause. Tyler would go on to serve as president for a full term as the 10th President, and the precedent he established of a vice president fully becoming the vice president would repeat itself in several future presidencies throughout the 19th to 20th centuries.

Furthermore, the Constitution had no specific outline of what would happen if the office of vice president had a vacancy. Aside from eight vice presidents taking the place of their respective presidents throughout American history, the office of vice president was left vacant sixteen times up to 1967. Through the late 18th and 19th centuries, vacant vice presidencies were generally not seen as a politically dangerous, nor pertinent, issue that necessitated swift remediation. With the outbreak of the Cold War in the mid 20th century, the need for both a president and vice president serving simultaneously became apparent. In an era where political, military, and social tensions constantly veered on the edge, the question of what would happen if the president was explicitly incapacitated, or even died, loomed in Congress. During the presidency of Dwight D. Eisenhower in the late 1950s, he made an effort to keep Congress and the public updated on his physical and mental health. Further, Eisenhower signed an unofficial agreement with his vice president – future President Richard Nixon – that he would take up the presidency if he was unable to continue his work, for whatever the reason may be. It was ultimately the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963 which finally pushed Congress to create a detailed, specific, and unambiguous outline of executive succession. After over six months of negotiations between the House of Representatives and the Senate, an amendment proposing a new series of executive succession was released to the states for ratification in July 1965. In February 1967, the required thirty-eight states had ratified the proposal, officially making it the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

Upon its ratification in 1967, the Twenty-fifth Amendment reaffirmed several of the precedents set by previous presidents and vice presidents in response to their own succession crises. Section 1 authorizes the vice president to become the president upon the former’s removal from office, resignation, or death. Section 2 further requires the president to nominate a politician who can replace the vice president when necessary. This was invoked for the first time with Gerald Ford replacing Vice President Spiro Agnew after his resignation in 1973. Using the precedent set by Dwight D. Eisenhower, Section 3 grants presidents the authority to temporarily transfer the power of their office to the vice president. The president can accordingly petition to have their powers restored after the interval concludes. In the complex and unique scenario where a president is considered to be unable to do their job but does not want to step down, Section 4 authorizes the vice president and a majority of the president’s cabinet or Congress to decide if the president is unable to perform their duties. Should the group have a majority opinion of “yes,” then the president’s powers are automatically transferred to the vice president. In response, the president can announce that they are able to resume their leadership role, after which the voting group has four full days to disagree, otherwise the president’s powers are fully restored when the time elapses. If the voting group disagrees with the president’s assertion, then they conduct a quick vote in Congress to decide if the president is unable to serve. With all its explanations of procedure, the Twenty-fifth Amendment managed to clear up the succession ambiguities that had persisted in the Executive Branch since the end of the 18th century.

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/...l-succession-process

Speaker Johnson: Biden’s Cabinet should consider 25th Amendment to remove prez after horrid debate performance:

House Speaker Mike Johnson said Friday that high-level discussions should be taking place in President Biden’s cabinet about invoking the 25th Amendment to make him step down after a disastrous debate performance the night before.

“There’s a lot of people asking about invoking the 25th Amendment right now, because this is an alarming situation,” Johnson (R-La.) told reporters. “Our adversaries see the weakness in this White House, as we all do.”

“I would ask the cabinet members to search their hearts,” he added. “I would be panicking too if I were a Democrat today and that was my nominee. I think they know they have a serious problem.”

“But it’s not just political, it’s not just the Democratic Party — it’s the entire country,” Johnson assessed. “We have a serious problem here because we have a president who by all appearances is not up to the task.”

The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress in 1965 following the assassination of John F. Kennedy and ratified by the states two years later, allows the cabinet to declare the president unfit to discharge the duties of office — and be succeeded by the vice president.

https://nypost.com/2024/06/28/...remove-boss-johnson/

Kamala isn't going to be president via the election. Pushing for the 25th amendment is her only route, even if it's for 5-6 months.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
Kamala isn't going to be president via the election. Pushing for the 25th amendment is her only route, even if it's for 5-6 months.

I believe you are correct. IF the DNC kommies decide that Big Mike is going to be their push, then they won't knock off Biden and place Kamala.

If they're going to go with Newsom...then, they might.

That's my thought on it.

I've heard some chatter on X and other places where speculation is that they might choose RFK. Historically, I think he checks all the electable DNC boxes. I'm just not sure if the kommies in control will risk it with him. The always hate Trump crowd will vote for RFK, and probably not Newsom.

As has been suggested, removing JoeB via the 25th Amendment is certainly possible. The entire Cabinet are nothing more than Dem operatives, and they should be willing to follow orders from the DNC.

Congress only gets involved when the President says he is once again fit for duty, but if the Acting President (VP) and a majority of the Cabinet disagree with that assessment. Then it takes a 2/3 vote by each House of Congress (House of Representatives and Senate) to decide that within 21 days.

How willing would the House of Representatives and the Senate be to concur (collude) with actions to remove JoeB from the scene ?

With JoeB removed (temporarily or otherwise) from office, the DNC could then declare that the presumptive nominee (JoeB) is no longer eligible for nomination as a vacancy exists, thus opening things up for a “savior” to come from the Convention floor.

We are treading very closely to a true “Constitutional Crisis” the likes of which has never existed before. The 25th Amendment is the key to this, as it provides legal cover for what amounts to a “Constitutional coup d’état”, with Oaths of Office being followed.

Does not solve the DNC’s problems.

First, all the donations to date can’t be easily redirected to another candidate.

Second, even California Dems hate Kamala, and for good reason.

Third, the lies to date were so loud, the only way to play this out is to double down on the utter stupidity of half the population.

I say Kamala will not initiate any action under the 25th Amendment. If she does it would appear to be a coup.

but if the Cabinet or Congress began the process she can say that she is following the will of the people and acting as to keep the government from descending into chaos.

Just another spin.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Does not solve the DNC’s problems.

The big problem for the DNC is that the Democrat brand is in the dumpster, it is completely ruined, the debate really sealed it. I don't care what Democrat replacement, if it is even possible, they choose, I'm absolutely convinced they won't win in November, the societal and economic damage is too deep, too severe for most Americans. Over 75 million voters watched the debate the other night on TV and livestream, and many now realize that have been lied to about Joe Biden, that this idiot is not in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
but if the Cabinet or Congress began the process

I keep reading the 25th Amendment and find nothing in it about the Cabinet alone without the VP or Congress being able to initiate the process. Can you point me to the proper provision of the amendment?

quote:

I keep reading the 25th Amendment and find nothing in it about the Cabinet alone without the VP or Congress being able to initiate the process.

The Cabinet cannot act alone ... and I would bet they are quietly having private discussions of the question. But they can only act together.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Assuming she has the majority of the cabinet behind her, and she transmits her declaration to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House it then gets dangerous for her.

If she fails to convince the Congress, she's done completely in all things political forever.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

The big problem for the DNC is that the Democrat brand is in the dumpster, it is completely ruined, the debate really sealed it. I don't care what Democrat replacement, if it is even possible, they choose, I'm absolutely convinced they won't win in November, the societal and economic damage is too deep, too severe for most Americans. Over 75 million voters watched the debate the other night on TV and livestream, and many now realize that have been lied to about Joe Biden, that this idiot is not in charge.

I know some who still believe in Joe! They find him a nice man who only wants the best for the people. Really. And, TDS seems to be a big part of it, with Trump being so evil that they are willing to forgive Joe for being not articulate (they are blind to his dementia).

The Dem brand is trash today, but if they nominate some attractive and popular candidate at the last possible moment, it could revive the brand through to election day. Picture a George Clooney type who is good looking and popular. Someone without a lot of political baggage. Nominated at the latest possible time so as to reduce Trump's ability to knock him down.

Remember "Hope and Change"? That was a brilliant slogan. If the dems put forth a young-ish dynamic candidate, they can leverage such meaningless slogans to get out the vote.

Even RFK Jr would have a chance as the Dem candidate.

This is going to be an entertaining 5 months! Unless the Dems stick with Joe, then it will be sad and dangerous.

If the 25th Amendment is used, the Democrats will never forgive themselves. Their reign of stupidity will be over for a generation.