SIGforum
Paul Allen’s colossal Stratolaunch plane emerges from its lair
June 01, 2017, 05:29 AM
aileronPaul Allen’s colossal Stratolaunch plane emerges from its lair
This bird was conceptualized and design frozen before Burt retired from SCALED. Knowing these people on a personal level for more than 35 years, the wing centersection is the last I'd worry about. This isn't too big a departure from some existing SCALED designs, ie, the White Knight 2 that serves as the launch vehicle for Virgin Galactic's Spaceship 2...flying since 2008. SCALED is now owned 100% by Northrop Grumman- does that make you feel better about the design?
June 01, 2017, 07:20 AM
myrottietyThat was my thought too. I saw about the white knight & white knight 2.
I think it'll fly. But I just don't think it'll be the best design. I can't imagine they got this far with out extensive simulations & wind tunnels on models.
Train how you intend to Fight
Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat. June 01, 2017, 07:57 AM
rscalzoMaybe when the co-founder of Microsoft can finally fix their newest project edge and get it working correctly would I consider flying on a aircraft he helped build.
His former products crash on a fairly routine basis. Hopefully this one won't crash as often.
June 01, 2017, 08:12 AM
jbcummingsquote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
...
Those parts will scatter like a room full of sleeping cats when start pistol is fired.
...
Best comment yet! I laughed out loud!
———-
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup.
June 01, 2017, 09:02 AM
SBrooksSo does a pilot sit on one side and co-pilot on the other ? Or just some electronics on one side to even out the weight of the pilots on the other. AND if so - which side do you sit on ?
Left side if American and right side if British ?
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SBrooks
June 01, 2017, 09:07 AM
JALLENquote:
Originally posted by SBrooks:
So does a pilot sit on one side and co-pilot on the other ? Or just some electronics on one side to even out the weight of the pilots on the other. AND if so - which side do you sit on ?
Left side if American and right side if British ?
From OP:
"They’ll be in the flight deck of the starboard fuselage, maneuvering the plane from far to the right of its centerline, while the port fuselage cockpit is empty and unpressurized."
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown June 01, 2017, 09:10 AM
SBrooksquote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by SBrooks:
So does a pilot sit on one side and co-pilot on the other ? Or just some electronics on one side to even out the weight of the pilots on the other. AND if so - which side do you sit on ?
Left side if American and right side if British ?
From OP:
"They’ll be in the flight deck of the starboard fuselage, maneuvering the plane from far to the right of its centerline, while the port fuselage cockpit is empty and unpressurized."
Sorry - I must have skimmed that part. I wonder if they accounted for weight differences in the two sides or if that even matters on something that large...
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SBrooks
June 01, 2017, 09:28 AM
joel9507quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
I wonder how Scaled Composites has gotten away with all those crazy designs all these years.
http://www.scaled.com/hires_gallery/I realize Rutan has retired, but I have to imagine his design principles have been thoroughly mastered.
This.
If a bunch of us non-Aero folks can see the obvious stress point in the middle, what do you want to bet the design engineers did, too?
Now, caveats apply: nobody is infallible - computer and scale models are imperfect - materials don't always perform to spec - Murphy was an optimist - etc., etc., etc...
I expect any test pilot will have gone over the numbers in some detail with the engineers who designed the airframe well before getting into the cockpit.
June 01, 2017, 09:34 AM
kkinaquote:
Originally posted by joel9507:
If a bunch of us non-Aero folks can see the obvious stress point in the middle, what do you want to bet the design engineers did, too?
Well, you know, the Ruger Mini-14 was mass-produced for over 30 years with an overly thin barrel before a novice shooter asked why don't they just clamp a second barrel to it???
June 01, 2017, 10:56 AM
egregoreI couldn't help thinking of the "Fireflash" aircraft from
Thunderbirds.
June 01, 2017, 11:11 AM
jaaron11I'd love to see the cross-section of that center wing, but I'm willing to bet that it is designed to more than handle the loading. Engineers don't tend to rely on guesswork, despite the apparent beliefs of some here. My question is, how much flex will there be in that wing and what is the ground clearance when fully loaded? The center wing would have to be extremely stiff to provide safe ground clearance for a heavy payload.
As sigmonkey alluded to, the flight control system will be a key component to keeping everything working together and keeping the stresses within the design limits.
J
Rak Chazak Amats June 01, 2017, 11:53 AM
WasabibillThe one thing you can say about Burt Rutan is he understands how to make something fly and he's good at it. While the appearance is unconventional I have no doubt this airplane will successfully complete its mission.
The history of aeronautical design and engineering is full of examples of other aircraft that "broke the mold".
As to the success of this idea vs competitors. We'll get to watch. One things for certain, the ability to put payloads into space at low prices will guarantee rich profits to the company that can figure out how.
____
I'm filled with gratitude for the blessings I've received.
June 01, 2017, 12:01 PM
JALLENquote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
quote:
Originally posted by cparktd:
Not an engineer, but I would bet that thing is a disaster waiting to happen.
No way can I see that little center section of wing standing the huge forces that will be acting on it in flight.
From the comments section:
Texan Forever
I'm a retired member of both the Society of Automotive and Aeronautical Engineers and the earlier American Rocket Society. Also The Society of Aerospace Medicine. I've designed aircraft all my life, starting with flying models in the early 1940's. I built from scratch and flew a model of the assymetrical Blohm and Voss German aircraft during the WW2 years. As expected, crazy as it looked, it flew beautifully. I instinctively can tell a lot about what is good design and what is bad, and can usually tell from just a first glance at a design where the flaws are, both aerodynamically and structurally.
This is an aerial monstrosity just waiting to come apart in flight and kill people. Obviously the weakest spot is the center wing section that structurally connects both halves. This inherently weak area must absorb all the torque stresses from keeping both fuselages joined, amplified by the fuselages not being further braced by a connecting tail surface like the WW2 P-38 and twin Mustang. Both sides of this huge aircraft will want to twist and bend independently from aerodynamic stresses, with only the center wing structure absorbing the immense concentrated torque stresses. It will break apart fairly soon. Also, the engines outboard of the two fuselages will add further stresses to the center wing trying to hold everything in place. At least two engines should have been located in the center section for better distribution of weight and thrust. But that would also have put even more stress in that area. This is a far worse design than the old 12-engined German Dornier flying boat of the late 1920's and early '30's. It might have been grossly under-powered but at least was structurally well engineered and very sturdy for its time.
I wonder how many designs this guy has in the Smithsonian?
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown June 01, 2017, 12:05 PM
jaaron11Isn't it funny how when something new and different comes along, people with no understanding of it say, "It'll never work!" Then, when they're shown how it works, the tune is, "Oh, that's pretty clever...". How anyone, even an aeronautical engineer, could dismiss the plane offhand based on only a picture alludes me.
J
Rak Chazak Amats June 01, 2017, 12:28 PM
Eponym
They are also developing a double barrel, over-under 44 magnum revolver. It hasn't been test-fired yet.
June 01, 2017, 01:00 PM
trapper189For all anyone here knows, the middle span is made of super ball material and flexs like crazy.
Since my 6 year old can see the problem with the design, I'd guess the folks that came up with it can to. The flight control systrms must be amazing. Hopefully, they don't use Windows.
June 01, 2017, 01:59 PM
rusbroLooks like it's time to update the joke about the blonde being coaxed to move back from first class to coach because the front section of the plane wasn't flying to her destination, but the back section was.
June 01, 2017, 02:39 PM
JagerOh, SNAP.
June 01, 2017, 02:56 PM
Phantom229I guess the glass half full thought is at least it isn't publicly funded. If Paul wants to throw his money at a project, I wish him all the best.
Situation awareness is defined as a continuous extraction of environmental information, integration of this information with previous knowledge to form a coherent mental picture in directing further perception and anticipating future events. Simply put, situational awareness mean knowing what is going on around you. June 01, 2017, 03:16 PM
nhtagmemberI've been a fan of Rutan's since I first flew Mike Melville's Vari-Viggen (N27MS) back in the early 80's. I think it will fly and if things go right, will probably land OK.
my concern is the same as Husky's - I think an abort to land before it sheds its payload is going to be interesting as to how that's done as a procedural - perhaps I can get a copy of the -1 manual
[B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC