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Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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^^^ Yeah, it's surreal for his Dad who coached him in little-league.
He's not yet making the "big bucks" but he can now afford not to live at home with his parents. Razz



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Excellent start for Bruce. And getting out of the second the way he did is how major leaguers are made. Remaining calm, having faith in yourself, and remaining focused pays dividends, and it appears Bruce's ROI went up a bit more for the O's.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bruce is killing it today against the Skankees. 5 innings, no runs and 4 hits.

The downside is his counterpart, Nestor Cortes. 5 innings, no runs and 2 hits.


John

The key to enforcement is to punish the violator, not an inanimate object. The punishment of inanimate objects for the commission of a crime or carelessness is an affront to stupidity.

 
Posts: 1693 | Location: People's Republik of Maryland | Registered: November 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bruce locked up the Yanks for 5 solid innings. Needs some run support.
 
Posts: 3417 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: July 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
^^^ Yeah, it's surreal for his Dad who coached him in little-league.
He's not yet making the "big bucks" but he can now afford not to live at home with his parents. Razz


One of the sticking points of the baseball strike was the league minimum wage. Last year it was a paltry $570k. Pro rated daily of course for minor league call ups and guys not on guaranteed contracts. The players wanted a raise to $775k and the owners countered at $630k. I think it settled at $700k. I hope he’s saving some and has a nice bachelor pad.
 
Posts: 4411 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by MRBTX:
Bruce locked up the Yanks for 5 solid innings. Needs some run support.

Bruce had a great outing yesterday.
I'm glad the O's bats came alive in the 8th.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bruce had a great night. Finally picked up the win.

Zimmermann, mixing a 91-mph fastball with an 85-mph changeup that Velazquez said “was coming in like Bugs Bunny,” an 81-mph curve and 85-mph slider, kept the Angels off balance for most of the night, giving up two earned runs and five hits over six innings and striking out Ohtani three times. The Orioles starter extended his season-opening scoreless innings streak to 14 before being nicked for an unearned run in the sixth and two runs in the seventh.

“He’s good,” Maddon said of Zimmermann. “He really changes speeds well, keeps the ball down, and there’s some deception in it. He’s not gonna throw it a high velocity number, but he’s gonna be hard to hit. That was not a fluke.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports...altimore-orioles-mlb



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Way to go Bruce!

https://www.mlb.com/news/best-...b-team-in-april-2022

Here is the MVP for each team so far:

Orioles: LHP Bruce Zimmermann
1.48 ERA, 1 HR in 24 1/3 innings
The Orioles’ pitching has been quite a surprise so far, and Zimmermann, a journeyman who grew up in Maryland but has been floating around the Minor Leagues for six years now, is the perfect avatar of the improvement. His peripheral numbers don’t support that ERA, but whose could? And how do you not root for the local kid?


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Posts: 4345 | Location: Sunnyside of Louisville | Registered: July 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Way to go Bruce!

Thanks for posting, doublesharp.

Here's another:

Unpacking Zimmermann's '22 transformation into budding ace

April 28th, 2022
Joe Trezza

Bruce Zimmermann K's five

NEW YORK -- Three years ago, the Orioles watched gleefully as a young left-hander spent the early months of the season shining, blossoming into an ace behind a changeup-heavy arsenal and the element of surprise. That pitcher was John Means, whose unlikely ascent from unheralded prospect to top-of-the-rotation arm remains peerless during these recent pitching-lean years in Baltimore.

In what Bruce Zimmermann did this April, though, parallels are beginning to emerge. Perhaps they are the roots of a similar transformation occurring in real time. The latest example came Thursday afternoon, when there was plenty to like from Zimmermann despite Baltimore’s sloppy 10-5 loss to the Yankees at Yankee Stadium.

“Today wasn’t our best day defensively,” manager Brandon Hyde said. “We let down Zim.”

Hyde comments on shaky defense

The five errors the Orioles committed (three behind Zimmermann during a pivotal fifth inning) were largely to blame for the lefty’s first loss of the season, marking the first five-error game in the Majors this season and Baltimore’s first since Aug. 8, 2018, vs. the Rays. All four runs Zimmermann allowed as a result were unearned, shaving his ERA to 0.93 through four starts. That ranks third best in baseball, behind only Marlins righty Pablo Lopez and Seattle’s Logan Gilbert.

The sample is admittedly too small for those results to be sustainable. But they’re certainly notable compared to 2021, when Zimmermann went 4-5 with a 5.04 ERA in 14 games (13 starts) while missing much of the second half with injury. At the very least, his recent body of work is sizable enough (19 1/3 innings, 80 batters faced) to suggest real growth from the Baltimore native.

“All of his pitches have improved,” Hyde said. “The command he has of four pitches right now, what he’s shown this season, is much improved from last year.”

How is Zimmermann doing it? Can he keep it up? Only time will tell. Let’s dig into the numbers in an attempt to answer those questions.
Bruce Zimmermann strikes out six

Apr 17, 2022

·

1:50
Bruce Zimmermann strikes out six

He’s throwing his fastball less
You may have heard of this happening, of pitchers across Major League Baseball benefiting from throwing fewer fastballs even in traditional fastball counts. Consider Zimmermann the latest convert.

Two-thirds of Zimmermann’s pitches Thursday were non-fastballs, led by his changeup (more on that later), which he threw 36 percent of the time. That’s in line with the kind of pitcher he’s been all season, during which he’s added a sinker but slashed his overall fastball usage by five percent. Opponents slashed .392/.367/.711 off his four-seamer in 2021; through four starts this year, they’re 11-for-20 (.556) against his two fastballs, and 9-for-47 (.191) against all his other pitches.

“There are so many good right-handed hitters in this division,” Hyde said. “As a left-handed [pitcher], you need to be able to pitch to both sides of the plate with quality offspeed stuff to keep them off your fastball.”
Bruce Zimmermann's quality outing

Apr 22, 2022

·

1:27
Bruce Zimmermann's quality outing

The changeup is improved
The trend of pitchers throwing their fastball less is rooted in what’s become a tenet of modern pitching philosophy: throw your best pitch more. For Zimmermann, that’s the changeup, which he’s throwing more (33 percent, up from 25 percent) and way more when ahead in the count (13.6 percent increase), especially against right-handed hitters (13.4 percent increase).
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Plus, the pitch is just different. Zimmermann entered play Thursday throwing his changeup with 1.7 more inches of vertical drop and 1.5 more inches of horizontal break compared to 2021.

“That’s coming from the difference in wrist action and the intent I’m putting behind it,” Zimmermann said. “The action I’ve been able to get on it -- developing that pitch in the last five, six months -- I’m really happy with how I’m throwing it and confident in any count with it right now.”

He has also added two inches of horizontal run to his four-seam fastball, morphing it from a below-average pitch into a more competitive offering without added velocity.

“The big thing I see is the changeup development,” Hyde said. “The changeup for Zim has been key. From the dugout, there is really nice depth to it. It’s a big change of pace, getting big swings and misses from the right-handed hitters.”

Better command of his breaking pitches
The slider was an effective third pitch for Zimmermann last season, and he’s actually throwing it a little less in 2022, mixing it with his curveball about evenly. That unpredictability has been an asset. So has where he’s thrown the slider, as he’s shown the ability to locate it off the plate to get swings and misses with more regularity.

Look at Zimmermann's slider distribution from 2021, when he elicited a 36.8 percent whiff rate and a 22.7 percent put-away rate with the pitch …

… compared to 2022, when he’s thrown 45 of them and has yet to allow a hit on the pitch (All stats are updated with Thursday’s start, but heat maps are entering Thursday).


https://www.mlb.com/news/bruce...esurgence-vs-yankees



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by doublesharp:
The Orioles’ pitching has been quite a surprise so far, and Zimmermann, a journeyman who grew up in Maryland but has been floating around the Minor Leagues for six years now, is the perfect avatar of the improvement. His peripheral numbers don’t support that ERA, but whose could? And how do you not root for the local kid?


What a backhanded compliment. How is someone who was drafted in '17 & only traded once a 'journeyman who has floated around the minors for 6 years'? Every article I've read from that author makes me think he's a douchebag. I read that one the other day & there was another 'one thing from every team' he did just before the start of the season that really stood out as stupid.

Bruce is doing well & it looks like it's an incremental improvement, so he could keep it going, especially with 4 pitches. His style would play well with the Cardinals defense - make it happen Chellim Smile
 
Posts: 3242 | Location: IN | Registered: January 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's been a rough stretch for Bruce recently...

Orioles send starting pitcher Bruce Zimmermann to Triple-A Norfolk to ‘reset a little bit’ amid tough stretch

https://www.baltimoresun.com/s...wxqv27una-story.html



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chilihead and Barbeque Aficionado
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I watched his last three starts. It wasn’t good. He left too many balls up, and over the plate. They ended up in the seats.

I hope he can recapture his mojo and make it back to the bigs soon.


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Posts: 10364 | Location: FL | Registered: December 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ramsey on Zimmermann: "He understands what he's here to do"

If left-hander Bruce Zimmermann is getting a reset in the minors, Justin Ramsey is one of the most important people trusted to push the right buttons.

The Orioles gave Zimmermann 13 starts before making the hard decision to send him down to Triple-A Norfolk. They didn’t want to create another hole in their rotation and try to piece together innings with heavy bullpen usage. They didn’t want to demote a pitcher, the Baltimore native, who broke camp as their No. 4 starter and stood on the mound for the home opener.

They didn’t have much choice. Zimmermann allowed 35 earned runs in his last 36 1/3 innings and surrendered 17 home runs, bringing his total to 18 that tied for most in the majors.

The 14 2/3 scoreless innings to begin the season couldn’t save his job.

Ramsey, in his first season as Tides pitching coach, is tasked with getting Zimmermann to a point where the Loyola Blakefield graduate is ready to reclaim it.

Zimmermann relieved Spenser Watkins in his first game with Norfolk and allowed five runs in his first inning. He followed with four scoreless, started Tuesday night against Gwinnett and allowed only one run and three hits with seven strikeouts in six innings.

Ramsey watched video of Zimmermann’s initial appearance, unable to attend the game because he had reported to Camden Yards as an observer and to join in pitchers meetings held during the off-day. He was back in the dugout Tuesday.

“I thought he did a better job of attacking from pitch one,” Ramsey said. “Obviously, that first inning didn’t go great in his first outing, but he settled in nicely and actually gave us really nice coverage, which is good to see. This time he had a better feel for all his pitches, and especially his changeup, that’s really starting to come back. I know it’s been a point of emphasis for him since, really, the first month of the season.

“The other thing he did was, he was actually throwing harder his last inning than he was at any other time. He flashed a couple 93s. So it was good to see him kind of putting it all together with the work that he’s done between outings, and going back to even when he was still up there before he came down.”

Ramsey gathered information on Zimmermann from Orioles assistant pitching coach Darren Holmes and minor league pitching coordinator Mitch Plassmeyer, who joined the organization in late May from the University of Missouri and specializes in how the body works with the delivery.

The plan in these instances is individualized. One method or approach isn’t universal.

There also are numerous conversations with Zimmermann, “just figuring out what he’s doing,” Ramsey said, “and trying to chip away at what works best for him and what he needs to do.”

Zimmermann thought he might be tipping his pitches and made some tweaks to better conceal the ball. Ramsey checked and hasn’t seen any evidence of it.

“We’ve been looking for it because he mentioned it, but he’s been very consistent with all his movements,” Ramsey said. “He certainly brought that up as something to keep eyes on, and what we’ve seen so far has been really good. There hasn’t been anything that he’s given away.”

Through all of this, Zimmermann has maintained a positive attitude that could get him to Baltimore faster, working in rhythm with the improved changeup, tick up in velocity and consistent mechanics.

“He’s been great,” Ramsey said. “I first got to know Bruce, really, at the alt site, so we’ve had a little bit of time together in terms of just establishing a relationship and building a rapport. He’s been awesome.

“He’s tackling the work every day, he understands what he’s here to do. This isn’t, obviously, where he wants to be, but he understands it’s all part of it, and he’s been fantastic.”

Past success wasn’t a fluke. The Orioles know that Zimmermann can be effective at the highest level. And most important, so does he.

There’s evidence of it.

“You could see the way he handled the first month of the season,” Ramsey said. “Anytime you’re in the AL East, it’s going to be a monster no matter what. He was mowing through lineups. So we all see it. It’s just a matter of getting that feel back, and also that confidence back to trust his weapons and attack the hitters.”

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/ramsey-on-zimmermann



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was in Memphis over the weekend and got a chance to see Bruce pitch Saturday night for the Norfolk Tides v. the Memphis Redbirds. Bruce pitched five shutout innings, striking out three, walking two and yielding four hits. It was a lot of fun especially with Yadi Molina there on rehab.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Norfolk Tides
Bruce Zimmermann pitches a gem as Tides blank Lehigh Valley to open home series

The Virginian-Pilot • Aug 30, 2022

Bruce Zimmermann pitched his best game of the season and Joseph Ortiz drove in a pair of runs in his Triple-A debut as the Norfolk Tides blanked the Lehigh Valley IronPigs 5-0 before 6,302 fans Tuesday night at Harbor Park.

The Tides (57-66) opened the six-game series by winning their second straight and third in four games. Lehigh Valley (68-56), which dropped a half-game behind first-place Durham in the International League’s East Division, lost its second straight.

Zimmermann (4-2) allowed three hits in 7 2/3 scoreless innings, striking out eight and walking none. DL Hall finished the shutout with 1 1/3 hitless innings.

https://www.pilotonline.com/sp...ekc2j7zla-story.html



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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nice updates
 
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Bruce is pitching right now in the second game against the Blue Jay's.

Two scoreless innings so far.


John

The key to enforcement is to punish the violator, not an inanimate object. The punishment of inanimate objects for the commission of a crime or carelessness is an affront to stupidity.

 
Posts: 1693 | Location: People's Republik of Maryland | Registered: November 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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He gave up a few runs in his third inning and was left in to complete the game and save the bullpen.


John

The key to enforcement is to punish the violator, not an inanimate object. The punishment of inanimate objects for the commission of a crime or carelessness is an affront to stupidity.

 
Posts: 1693 | Location: People's Republik of Maryland | Registered: November 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bruce Zimmermann is looking to make his way back to the Orioles after being sent down in June to work on his mechanics. He has performed well for the Tides, going 5-2 with a 3.77 ERA.

“Zimm has been really good here the last four or five times out,” Britton said. “I think it’s important for him to have that three-pitch mix. With the fastball, the velocity has picked up. His changeup is really coming back into form. He’s been really good for us, and I am looking forward to him having a strong finish.”

https://www.baltimorebaseball....eason-surge-norfolk/

The Tides season is now over and Bruce has been called up and will make the trip with the Orioles to Boston.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In first spring start, Bruce Zimmermann vies for Orioles rotation spot with more than his changeup

By Andy Kostka

February 27, 2023 5:02 PM

Orioles left-handed pitcher Bruce Zimmerman delivers a pitch in the first inning of a baseball game against the Tampa Bay Rays inside Ed Smith Stadium in Sarasota, Fl. (Ulysses Muñoz/The Baltimore Banner)

Our nonprofit news organization is made possible by subscribers and donors who value storytelling that impacts and uplifts communities. Thank you for supporting our journalism.

SARASOTA, Fla. — The dream start to 2022 for left-hander Bruce Zimmermann fell away, slowly at first and then in one fell swoop.

The Orioles starter, who grew up attending games at Camden Yards, made his season debut there and recorded three straight quality starts before the teetering began. He then managed a 7.32 ERA between April and June and found himself in Triple-A Norfolk, looking for steadier footing.

Zimmermann is back in major league spring training, back on the mound with an Orioles jersey on. He toed the rubber Monday in a 14-2 loss to the Tampa Bay Rays that unraveled after his two innings were complete.

After that outing, Zimmermann emphasized his goal to return to the starting rotation for the long haul. But looking around, he knows how difficult a task that will be.

Before spring training began, executive vice president and general manager Mike Elias said there were 12 rotation candidates. Zimmermann is one of them. But there are five spots, ample arms who found success in the big leagues last year and only so many innings to prove yourself.

His first two frames of the spring, despite including a mistake to Wander Franco that resulted in a two-run homer, were a solid beginning on a path that should carry through March in Florida.

“You guys can see the amount of starters we have down here,” Zimmermann said. “A lot of guys last year did a lot of good things for some decent stretches, and they brought in some other guys. … Everybody is aware of the competition and what this camp is about, but I think guys are really excited about it as well, because the last five guys standing are really going to be a good competitive product.”

For Zimmermann to be part of that last five, he knows his results will have to look more akin to the beginning of last season in the majors, when he allowed five earned runs in 19 1/3 innings. Zimmermann felt he got back to that level near the end of the season, too, pitching for the Norfolk Tides.

He allowed three runs or fewer in nine of his final 10 appearances for the Triple-A affiliate, but his path back to the majors was blocked by a rotation in Baltimore that had found its stride. It was good for the Orioles and unfortunate for Zimmermann, but he spent the offseason adjusting several of his pitches to maximize his opportunity come spring training.

He wanted to separate the movement of his four-seam and two-seam fastball — his two-seamer has more sinking action; the four-seamer cuts slightly. He also modified his slider grip to rediscover a pitch shape he had a few years ago, hoping to induce more swings and misses.

With those and other secondary pitches, Zimmermann feels he can save his changeup for critical moments.

“Developing the curveball the last season and a half especially, it has gotten better, it has gotten to a strikeout pitch for me,” Zimmermann said. “I think just having the consistency of both [the changeup and curveball] to get to the bottom and top of the zone when I want definitely takes pressure off the changeup, and then, obviously, it makes it a little better because they don’t see it as often.”

On Monday, Zimmermann faced a lineup that featured most of the names that will break camp with Tampa Bay this season. Franco jumped on a slider Zimmermann left over the plate, a mistake, he said, after nibbling around the edges at the beginning of the at-bat.

But beyond that, Zimmermann retired five of the next six batters he faced.

“His second inning, he threw the ball much better,” manager Brandon Hyde said. “First outing, so just good to see him out there and get two innings out of it.”

The rest of the pitching staff collapsed, including two homers off right-hander Joey Krehbiel and four runs off left-hander Darwinzon Hernandez. But Zimmermann saw Monday as a positive first step into a pivotal camp competition.

“Getting back to a little bit more of a grinder mentality and winning a position back,” Zimmermann said. “I’m really excited with how I’ve been doing in camp so far and looking forward to building up and showing what I can do.”

https://www.thebaltimorebanner...6TRCOLPO6ZVLZ72CUOA/



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 22441 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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