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His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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I have mixed feelings on this topic.

On one hand, I can't see having an insurance company shelling out $1 million a month just to keep someone alive.

On the other hand, I see a lot of disabled people living pretty full lives with the assistance they get.

My biggest hesitation is that any system will be gamed. And some will be treated more fairly than the rest because they are deemed more equal.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20148 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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It all boils down to one thing. Scarcity of resources. That's it. There is a finite amount of medical care availiable to people to use. Those with more money can get better healthcare, those with less will get less.

The sooner people realize this basic concept of economics that every freshman in college learns the better.

After that, it's a decision on if you are willing to accept that world wasn't created equal (capitalism) and people will compete to get those resources. Or you think that people have a fundamental right to those resources and are willing to sacrifice the good of everyone for the good of everyone (socialism).

Every experiment in testing these two competing mindsets we have proven time and time again that the most efficient way is to allow competition for the resources.

How's that Venezuelan or Cuban healthcare going? Anyone scheduling trips to those countries to get their heart surgery? Basic economics 101. Some get it, some don't.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 21224 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
It all boils down to one thing. Scarcity of resources. That's it. There is a finite amount of medical care availiable to people to use. Those with more money can get better healthcare, those with less will get less.

The sooner people realize this basic concept of economics that every freshman in college learns the better.

We had a system that covered about 95% of the people. But that left about 20 million without "coverage". So rather than providing charity or something to the 5% we throw the baby out with the bath water.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24720 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by slosig:
Hospitals are legally required to proved care to people "actively dying" (P226RN could describe a lot better). It is legal for a hospital to have a medical professional evaluate potential patients who are unable to pay and if they don't meet the rather narrow criteria give them directions elsewhere. Whether this is moral or right is a separate question, but it is legal.


Those are private hospitals. Publicly funded hospitals cannot turn away based on an inability to pay.

Any Emergency Dept has to follow EMTELA laws. Doesn't matter if "private" or "public".


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3898 | Location: Central AZ | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
Any Emergency Dept has to follow EMTELA laws. Doesn't matter if "private" or "public".


Yes, this is true and I should have elaborated more - I was just trying to acknowledge his point that private hospitals can, at some point, use ability to pay to factor into the decision to continue care or transfer the patient while publicly funded hospitals cannot. But emergency care is a different animal and all hospitals must provide emergent care to stabilize regardless of ability to pay.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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The next logical step is for insurance companies to come to terminally ill patients with a "deal"... Drink the hemlock (or whatever) and we'll pay your survivors $XXX,XXX. Cheaper than keeping you alive. No pressure on survivors, of course.
 
Posts: 1325 | Location: Gainesville, VA | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
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Most suicide clauses are temporary. In other words, they exist to prevent people from buiying insurance specifically to cover their already-planned suicide. Usually, these clauses expire after a couple of years. Because some people develope bona fide mental health issues that lead to a suicide well after they bought the insurance. Those suicides are covered.


_____________
"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
 
Posts: 4285 | Location: In The Swamp | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIG's 'n Surefires
Picture of M-11
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“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”—from Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol



"Common sense is wisdom with its sleeves rolled up." -Kyle Farnsworth
"Freedom of Speech does not guarantee freedom from consequences." -Mike Rowe
"Democracies aren't overthrown, they're given away." -George Lucas
 
Posts: 6880 | Location: IL, due south of the Arch | Registered: April 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by markand:
The next logical step is for insurance companies to come to terminally ill patients with a "deal"... Drink the hemlock (or whatever) and we'll pay your survivors $XXX,XXX. Cheaper than keeping you alive. No pressure on survivors, of course.


I have no idea what it is like to be in that situation, but think I might take the deal if it meant leaving my family in a more secure position. "Terminal" meaning there is little or no chance of recovery.
 
Posts: 9044 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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There is only one way to STOP THE INSANITY:

Recognize what "Health Insurance" is (or at least used to be or should be: A voluntary purchase of an insurance policy against a catastrophic expense.

It is not a "right";

It is not (or should not be) a mandatorily-supplied benefit from your employer

It should not be a "grab bag of freebies" such as condoms, viagra, birth control, flu shots etc....UNLESS THE INSURANCE COMPANY WISHES TO OFFER THOSE as part of their package.

Everyone eventually gets sick, injured, and/or dies. Free people can make a rational personal decision about how much money they want to spend to try to extend their life by x% or improve their health by y%.

Yes, "rich people" will have more options. That's one of the incentives to become rich.

The whole myth that health insurance needs to be control, "supplied", regulated, "funded", etc just represents the success that socialists have had on propagandizing our thinking processes.


"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
 
Posts: 6641 | Registered: September 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
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Real life case in the news now from the U.K. The .gov is ordering life support removed. The parents want to remove their child from the system and bring him to the US for an experimental procedure completely at their own expense. The .gov and Human Rights council say 'No'.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/..._campaign=benshapiro



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Wanna Missile
Picture of tanksoldier
posted Hide Post
quote:
the inescapable logical direction is to simply provide nothing and let people get sick and die.


Question: Why should it be any other way?

Healthcare is a service. If you can't afford it you don't get it.

Doctors don't work for free.

quote:
when someone is in a position to force your hand


They aren't forcing your hand. Nobody is refusing to allow anyone to purchase a more expensive treatment.

They just aren't going to pay for it FOR you.

If you signed a contract with an insurance provider that allows them to do this to you, that's your problem.

Read that contract next time.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Posts: 21542 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ryanp225:
quote:
Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
After "assisted suicide" comes "enforced suicide."

That's certainly a stretch.


Not really


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25656 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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