This story is much too long to post but quite interesting. Australia has long had both a private and public system for health care.
I will post the first few paragraphs to give you an idea. It is a complicated and interesting read. I am not suggesting that this system would work in America, but it is interesting to see how people choose which care they prefer and the differences in each. Here are the first few paragraphs and the link:

One sister used public health care when she got pregnant. The other delivered at a private hospital. Here’s how health care works down under.

CAULFIELD SOUTH, Australia — When Eloise Shepherd was pregnant with her three children, she had a decision to make each time: She could deliver at a public facility, which meant government-provided insurance would pay for most of the cost of delivery; or she could go to a private hospital and pay through the private insurance she carried.

All three times, she opted for the public route.

It wasn’t glamorous. For her second baby, Shepherd remembers being in a hospital room with three other women, only curtains between their beds. She could hear one of her roommates Skyping with her family through the night. She describes the food as “slop in a trough.”

But it was adequate — and it was cheap. Delivery and her epidurals at the public facilities were free. She paid a couple hundred bucks for a prenatal genetic test when she was pregnant at age 37, the one thing she opted to get done outside the public system, but that was about it aside from copays for her prenatal appointments.

Her sister Madeleine Campbell went the other way in fall 2018, when she was expecting her first child. She wanted to deliver at a private hospital, not a public hospital like her sister, with an obstetrician of her choice, who would see her from her first prenatal appointment all the way to labor. Shepherd, on the other hand, says she saw a different midwife or obstetrician on every visit to the public hospital.

“I like to know what’s happening,” Campbell says, “and I like things to be organized and orderly.”

When Campbell had a brief scare with detecting her baby’s heartbeat, she was able to call her obstetrician’s office from her car and see him on the spot, a luxury Shepherd never had. At the private hospital where she delivered, Campbell was moved from an inpatient room to a nice suite in a hotel after the first night. The food was, as she recalls, “excellent”; she had poached eggs on toast and smoked salmon one morning.

Campbell got exactly the experience she wanted for herself and her newborn daughter. But it cost her $5,000 Australian.

LINK: https://www.vox.com/2020/1/15/...h-insurance-medicare

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Campbell got exactly the experience she wanted for herself and her newborn daughter. But it cost her $5,000 Australian.

Which is roughly $3400 USD.

So about 3/4ths the out-of-pocket cost of an uncomplicated childbirth with private insurance in the US, which averages around $4500.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Campbell got exactly the experience she wanted for herself and her newborn daughter. But it cost her $5,000 Australian.

Which is roughly $3400 USD.

So about 3/4ths the out-of-pocket cost of an uncomplicated childbirth with private insurance in the US, which averages around $4500.

Uh, for her sister on the public plan, it cost Australian tax payers something. It may not have cost money out of pocket, but someone was paying for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Campbell got exactly the experience she wanted for herself and her newborn daughter. But it cost her $5,000 Australian.

Which is roughly $3400 USD.

So about 3/4ths the out-of-pocket cost of an uncomplicated childbirth with private insurance in the US, which averages around $4500.

Uh, for her sister on the public plan, it cost Australian tax payers something. It may not have cost money out of pocket, but someone was paying for it.

Yep, the "cheap" and "free" nonsense from the government plan noted in the article is totally misleading. Someone is paying for your free shit.

The problem with the US medical system... when you boil it all down: The people with free medical care want the service that comes with private medical insurance.

The divide between the different systems works but only when the divide between the services can be accessed or crossed only with $$$$ from the patient and not from the insurance pool or society at large.

But to acknowledge this, the US would have to step back and acknowledge that we have a "class based" health insurance system. And the Democrats/Liberals can't have that.

As a medical provider, I'm all for Public and Private insurance. Do you want Prime Ribeye or Hamburger?? What can you afford?? I may be vilified for my outlook, but medical care is a commodity that is subject to market forces.

Yes, BASIC medical care should be available for all.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Campbell got exactly the experience she wanted for herself and her newborn daughter. But it cost her $5,000 Australian.

Which is roughly $3400 USD.

So about 3/4ths the out-of-pocket cost of an uncomplicated childbirth with private insurance in the US, which averages around $4500.

I'd love to be able to only have to pay $4500 for a birth. Our first one was upwards of $40,000 total ( we were on the hook for around $10,000) and the second one was around $10,000. Then again my health insurance is not great.

My how times have changed.

Had two kids in the early 80s. Both were best case outcomes. We took out Blue Cross Blue Shield before hand, just in case.

It would have saved money to skip the insurance, 3 years of premiums plus out our of pocket amounted to more than the actual bills. Thats fine, we were covered in case of emergencies / problems.

Each birth, Hosp plus Dr total was around $1000 each.

quote:

Yep, the "cheap" and "free" nonsense from the government plan noted in the article is totally misleading. Someone is paying for your free shit.

^^^^^^^^^^
I did not post the entire article because it is a long read. For those interested, there are taxes that fund the public system. The article makes it very clear that there is a monetary and human price to be paid for the public system. It is a long read but worth it. The Australia system is complicated.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I'd love to be able to only have to pay $4500 for a birth. Our first one was upwards of $40,000 total ( we were on the hook for around $10,000) and the second one was around $10,000. Then again my health insurance is not great.

Yeah, that's just the average. Some pay as much as $12,000ish or more out of pocket. And some much less than $4500 (e.g. Tricare, which seems like it has got to be just about the best insurance out there for having a baby, at sub-$100).

quote:

Originally posted by El Cid 92:
The problem with the US medical system... when you boil it all down: The people with free medical care want the service that comes with private medical insurance.

The divide between the different systems works but only when the divide between the services can be accessed or crossed only with $$$$ from the patient and not from the insurance pool or society at large.

But to acknowledge this, the US would have to step back and acknowledge that we have a "class based" health insurance system. And the Democrats/Liberals can't have that.

As a medical provider, I'm all for Public and Private insurance. Do you want Prime Ribeye or Hamburger?? What can you afford?? I may be vilified for my outlook, but medical care is a commodity that is subject to market forces.

Yes, BASIC medical care should be available for all.

Andrew

I hear what you say, and I understand where you are coming from.

The part I struggle with is the end state of the system. When I worked in London in the mid-eighties, the UK system sounded like that. Basic care, perhaps with a small wait provide by the National Health and you were free to have private insurance or spend cash on Harley Street. But in the last few years I’ve read of a couple case where British parents were prevent by the courts from accessing potentially lifesaving care and were left to sir there and watch their kids die.

I dunno what the solution is, but I’d be reluctant to give government the control they currently have, much less any more.

I'm not smart on this type of stuff. But it seems to me that whether public or private, the actual costs are being distributed across some paying population.

The difference is that the public population is compulsory whereas the private population is voluntary. However, the private population is likely price given the public contribution is compulsory.

That being said, what is the cost per person for each route? Any numbers here?

For example: Public system is $10B distributed across 100M people so $100/person/year. Vs private system of $1B (in premiums) across 10M people (insured) or about $100 / person / year + the $3500 co-pay (for that person)? (again, not real numbers, just for concept).

So, Public route: $100. Private route: $100 (public compulsory) + $100 (insurance) + $3500 for the baby.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

I'd love to be able to only have to pay $4500 for a birth. Our first one was upwards of $40,000 total ( we were on the hook for around $10,000) and the second one was around $10,000. Then again my health insurance is not great.

Same here. 1n 1978 my soon to be wife and I were in the unfortunate circumstance of her becoming pregnant. We both had insurance and had been living together for the last two years, but since we weren't married at the time of conception maternity coverage wasn't included. We immediately married and looked forward to our first child. Together we had saved just over $3,000 over that last 2 1/2 years by living together in a fixer-upper house and scrimping. Long story short the delivery went fine other than they did a cesarian which required my wife to stay, I believe 4 days instead of the then normal 2-3.
When we were leaving the hospital I asked the billing office how much I owed? We were told we don't have a total yet, we'll bill you and there'll be a number of them for the various services, you can pay once you've received them." In the following weeks when the bills started arriving I placed each one in a box. A few weeks later I came home to my wife crying, she had opened them all, added them up, and the total was just under $3,300, our 2 1/2 years of savings plus some. We both were expecting $1500 to maybe $2,000. I had to wait for my next pay check, then took our savings plus about $150 and gave them.

How much was that $3,300 to us at the time? Just checked an inflation calculator, $20,400. I later discovered that had our insurance covered it, the hospital would have only received a portion of that amount.

It's a similar story for a woman who gave birth at Mandan Community Hospital on March 10, 1954. A copy of the bill from her birth was recently shared on Reddit. Here's the breakdown...

Room 1 -- 1 night -- $6.50 per day = $6.50 Room 5 -- 4 nights -- $9.00 per day = $36.00 Anesthetic -- $10.00 Dressings -- $2.50 Drugs -- $8.50 Delivery Service (Maternity) -- $15.00 Laboratory Tests -- $8.00 Nursery Care -- $10.00 Treatments -- $.35 X-Rays & Fluoroscopics -- $2.00 Tax -- $.99 Total Account -- $99.84 Deposit -- $50.00 Balance Due Payable -- $49.84
Under $100 for a birth and five nights of care – such a deal?

But what about inflation? I can hear your brain trying to math it out right now. Though I'm no expert in such things, I can share that Reddit user tampabankruptcy reports this $99.84 bill is, "Inflation adjusted to 2016 $893.93. Still a deal.

I had a kid 5 years ago. Before the scheduled c section, the hospital called me and DEMANDED that I pay $5000 up front, right now. I told them to pound sand, send the bill to insurance, then send me the bill for the rest. They told me to pound sand and either pay up RIGHT NOW, or schedule the c-section somewhere else.

What I also wonder about in our society in America, is how many other countries have the influx of people to our shores daily, that don't participate in paying taxes but seem to enjoy the benefits. How can politicians/people for universal health care, not realize the costs would be much higher in this country compared to any other in the world,( I know they don't care about it)? I also find it quite amusing how many of the democrats and their cabinets, didn't take/want obamacare when they were the ones that pushed for it.

I wonder how much Australia's and other countries public health care pay for when things get really expensive and how timely urgent heath needs are handled. Dear sister passed away last summer but before she did her monthly lanreotide shot for her cancer was about 10K and her private insurance paid for most of it but she maxed out her out of pocket expenses in a short period of time which was a life saver for her and her husband financially especially with her chemo, numerous MRIs, CT Scans, PET Scans, etc.

quote:

I wonder how much Australia's and other countries public health care pay for when things get really expensive and how timely urgent heath needs are handled. Dear sister passed away last summer but before she did her monthly lanreotide shot for her cancer was about 10K and her private insurance paid for most of it but she maxed out her out of pocket expenses in a short period of time which was a life saver for her and her husband financially especially with her chemo, numerous MRIs, CT Scans, PET Scans, etc.

^^^^
Go to the link on the article it covers this exact issue of a cancer patient. I did not post the entire article because it is VERY lengthy.