Question:

Is a signed proposal a contract?

I have a client that I built cabinets for, they signed the proposal Gave me 1/2 and net was to be given on delivery. I did the project delivered them (they were not home) and sent them a final invoice.they agreed to pay me in an email and a date to pick up the check. everything to this point was great, we actually were very friendly to each other, I even gave them a half a salmon I caught next to the river there home sits on.

The weekend went buy figuring I was going to pick the check up on Monday, I received another email saying they wanted more cabinets they also expressed how happy they were with my work and wanted to hold off payment until the new bit work they wanted was complete.

I told them I don't have time to do more work as I was too busy. they then informed me that they would not pay until the new work was complete. I found this to be quite odd and figured maybe they were just trying to stall because they didn't have the money. several emails went back and forth with the same results. I then contacted my lawyer and had a demand letter sent with no response.

I took them to small claims court and lost. The judge said that a signed proposal is not a contract and they walked off with the remaining balance of $ 7000 dollars. this really stings, I contacted my lawyer and he said the judge is incorrect, doesn't normally hear these cases and that is not familiar with contract law. luck of the draw I guess. it's also my understanding that small claims is final.

From the very beginning the judge hit me at every angle was rude had scolded me, asked me question that made no since like what's my
mark up,and why certain things cost what they did. On the flip side she treated the defendant like the poor innocent home owner, was smiling at them and gently talking them. it was just weird. at one point I just sat back in my chair as I knew I was done then she started asking the defendant about all the charges and did they agree to them, and on every one they said yes.

Things at that point were looking better and she was calculating all the cost. at the last second she changed here mind and that was it. the smug look on their faces was hard to take but I kept it together and walked out.

31 years of being in business and this is the first time I have ever had to go to court.

I haven't slept in 2 days thinking about this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: XLT,

That sucks.
On the bright side, they probably weren't going to pay you for the additional cabinets, either.

Talk to another local lawyer, not for just this customer, but also how to protect yourself going forward. Perhaps you need updated contracts from now on.

Can you file a property lein?

My sympathies. I've had customers willfully rip me off, right from the get go they had no intentions to pay.

Good luck to you.

So you made the cabinets, delivered the cabinets, installed them as per your written proposal. They paid 1/2 but refuse to pay the other half?

Lawyer question: Can he give them their money back and take the cabinets?

I feel badly for you. Always two sides though..
Curious, why did you do the small claims court deal. $7k seems like a lot of $ and your lawyer should of advised of a better path I would of thought.

We used to use an "intent to Lien" process. A pretty standard procedure to protect our business from these kinds of folks back in the day.

No, he cannot refund their money and uninstall the cabinets.

Wait.

You did work at a home and a court ruled that you shouldn't get paid for it?

That doesn't jive. Something is missing from the story.

Are you a licensed contractor in your state, and if so, why didn't you lien the property?

Was there a dispute at trial as to the quality or price of the work?

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Wait.

You did work at a home and a court ruled that you shouldn't get paid for it?

That doesn't jive. Something is missing from the story.

And why small claims court when you already had a lawyer? May be a good reason, just seems strange to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Wait.

You did work at a home and a court ruled that you shouldn't get paid for it?

That doesn't jive. Something is missing from the story.

Are you a licensed contractor in your state, and if so, why didn't you lien the property?

Was there a dispute at trial as to the quality or price of the work?

Nothing is missing from the story that what confuses the wife and I. I'm in shock has to how they can get away with it. I'm a manufacturer I don't do any installation. I wish now I would have done a material lien but after 31 years of being in business treating customers right it's never been an issue. I have a 5 star rating on houzz.

No dispute of anything other then the judge saying that my proposal was not a contract.

Honestly I think these highly educated people were put off by me telling them I was to busy to do anymore and they simply didn't have the money. the Judge said that in a contract I had to list each cabinet what kind of hinges, drawer slides, material it was made out of and picture. I had drawings and the type of material but I never say anything about hinges and slides as most people wouldn't know what the are in the first place. the whole thing is just weird and why would she ask me about my mark up??

Why small claims ? Lawyer cost would have taken darn near everything and My lawyer advised me it was a simple case plus just the demand letter was 1500 bucks I was shocked at that price I was thinking 300 tops.

Sounds like the judge decided you weren't going to win the second you came in, no matter what the story.

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:
Why small claims ? Lawyer cost would have taken darn near everything and My lawyer advised me it was a simple case plus just the demand letter was 1500 bucks I was shocked at that price I was thinking 300 tops.

Makes sense. Sorry you had to go through this, sounds like you got kinda hosed on the cost of the demand letter as well!

I think you said it best - 31 years of business and nothing like this ever happening. You are lucky to have gone that long without running into jerks like this. Not that that takes any of the sting away right now.

I think you need a new lawyer. If you have a CPA ask him for a referral.

Strange all around.

Find out if you can appeal, probably to the circuit court. Better judges. There will be a time limit after which the judgment is final so don't delay.

I hope a lawyer steps in and offers advice- this sounds like total bullshit. You did the work. They signed the proposal. If nothing changed, there's no reason you shouldn't be pif.

I am an attorney and I do some contract work.

Not sure what state you are in but something sounds very odd. My email is on my profile if you would like to chat.

1500 bucks for a demand letter does seem steep.

That sucked. I hope you get justice. What with the signed proposal and back and forth emails, there certainly was an understanding of an exchange of goods.

Even without a contract, most states have laws that allow you to still get paid. Sounds like attorney time.

I would find a better lawyer, you should be able to recover payment for the services rendered, nobody does this stuff for free. Imagine if you win you could ask for attorney fees as well.

I had friends like these folks, lived well, inherited some money, moved to DC and built a large home,

The tactic is they become very friendly with folks they want something from, for this home with Toll Brothers they befriended their job supervisor, going out to dinner, wine, etc so he installed all kinds of upgrades to the home without proper written authorization.

When the top guy did the walk through he couldn't believe what was in the house, granite, marble tile, upgraded cabinets, etc etc. Since there wasn't any paperwork they ended up not paying a dime for tens of thousands in upgrades, the supervisor was fired, and they tell everyone how they pulled it off with a smile...

People like that are aholes...

Having gone to court and a decision rendered, the dispute is resolved, other than possible appeal. In many states, no appeal is possible, although in Whackyland, the defendant can appeal.