Implicitly, it is then considered acceptable social behavior to taunt with the objective of provoking a response. I don't agree with that; there is behavior that results in escalation - every fight, every war - the root is an escalation from some previous peaceful state.

One who throws the first punch is not necessarily at fault. There needs to be consequences for unacceptable social behavior, regardless of physical manifestation.

If this is aligned w/ your "no over the line taunting" then perhaps we are in agreement and are just debating where that ephemeral line is drawn.

This is in general - not in the bounds of a sanctioned sports game. In that case, let the officials handle it. If they don't handle, then you're basically back to societal rules.

It is indeed confusing. I grew up resolving conflicts with other guys in a physical manner I was not all that skilled at boxing so I let up. When I entered college I noticed that physical confrontation was not acceptable. My last physical fight was my first year of college. It solved a problem with my roommate.

I would not call that a tackle, he was trying to take his head off. Compounded by the fact that the runner never saw it coming, the runner could have been seriously hurt.

My initial thought is the runner should have been ejected on his first run in with a pitcher to avoid further confrontations.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmmmm. Was it targeting then? That is why I said linebacker.

He should have just waited until his next at bat and put a fastball in his ear hole.

Like Bob Gibson said after he retired. "I never hit a single batter my entire career by accident".

Depending on what the runner said, it was justified. Also, he did see the pitcher coming, tried to square up and still got leveled.

I’ve heard some absolutely despicable things in sports, most are just the level of taunting but some are beyond the pale.

This may have been one of those situations.

Hell of a hit.

Pitcher decided it was worth it to go all in. Can't say if that was the right call or not, I wasn't there.

1 perspective, maybe the guy got exactly what was coming to him. Another, pitcher went nuts and committed assault, sore loser, overreacted, etc.

This is what the Hockey gods are for. Not sure how baseball handles it, but I think men with balls are still involved.

Now that action could turn me into a baseball fan.

JHE, good post.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
I am around baseball more than most. Even at the high school level it is shocking the level of disrespectful things that some players will taunt opposing players with….seriously vile things complete with researching opponents girlfriends and moms through social media prior to a matchup in order to call out by name what “I did with your sister/mom last night”.

This is a failure of coaching. I've coached kids not much younger than these and would never allow that sort of behavior for a moment. I'll bench your ass in a heartbeat if you don't heed my warning first off, and then run your ass through the football stadium until you puke at practice on Monday if benching you wasn't enough to get my point across. What's missing in this conversation is that players who don't maintain control over their emotions aren't effective on the field. Taking the other team's pitcher deep for an HR and a couple RBI's in the next inning is ten times more painful than slinging insults.

quote:

Let’s say the pitcher sticks with baseball convention. He lets the runner complete his trot around the bases and promptly ear holes the next batter with a fastball (as has already been suggested in this thread), the benches clear, a couple of punches are thrown, lots of pushing and shoving then the game goes on. The pitcher likely gets a couple games suspension for delivering a potentially life altering pitch at a batter’s head and everyone is fine with it but tackling the actual offender should earn him a lifetime ban?

Uh uh. Absolutely unacceptable for obvious reasons. I've had pitchers drill batters before, but it was made abundantly clear that the pitch had better not get above the ribs. Pain and sending a message, yes. A potential trip to the ER, absolutely not. And for the record, I've personally been on the receiving end of that sort of payback pitch several times over the years, but neve attacked a pitcher in response. Best example was getting beaned, stealing second, and then third, and then tormenting the pitcher so badly at third, I walked home on a wild pitch given the pitcher was completely frazzled. And yeah, I threw him a real shit eating grin as I walked to the dugout.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
That reminds me of the Texas high school football player who, after being ejected from the game and left the field, ran back on and blindside leveled the Ref. Ref never saw him coming and was pretty much screwed up as a result. This was in early December 2020.

Emmanuel Duron, age 18, was charged with a Class A Felony. His team was removed from the playoffs.

Anger issues, poor self control, the videos live forever on the internet, what a great way to screw up your life at the age of 18.

A quick google of that name finds that idiot isn't through doing dumb shit. The cops found that same guy asleep in a car with some blow about 3-4 weeks ago.

According to an arrest record, an Edinburg police officer responded to Los Lagos Drive in Edinburg on Tuesday around 5:28 a.m. in reference to a car parked on the roadway.

The officer located Duron asleep in his vehicle in the driver seat and “smelled a strong odor of marijuana coming from the inside of the vehicle.”

A further inspection of the vehicle revealed plastic bags with six grams of cocaine inside of the vehicle, according to the arrest record.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
He should have just waited until his next at bat and put a fastball in his ear hole.

Like Bob Gibson said after he retired. "I never hit a single batter my entire career by accident".

Funny story about Bob Gibson. The last guy to ever bat against him in the majors got a hit off him (possibly a homer, not certain) They went up against each other 10 years later at an "old timer's" game for fun...

First pitch... Gibson beans him.

Kevin

On a serious note... As a baseball player, umpire, fan and enthusiast... This is horseshit all around.

If you are a pitcher, and a batter tees off on you... OK, one of two things happened. Either you served up a meat pitch (your own fault) or he just plain beat you. It happens.

Throwing at a batter cause they were better than you, or because you missed your location/pitch is chickenshit.

Even the best pitchers in the world SOMETIMES get lit up. Look at Clayton Kershaw's postseason record/stats....

That said, if you are a hitter... Don't be a douche. If you go yard, or fight off a tough at bad and succeed... take your base(s) and be humble. After all, everyone who has played the game knows a split second or a fraction of an inch is the difference between a fly ball or a dinger, a 6/4/3 DP or a single, or a walk/K

Just don't be a douche.

Kevin

Maybe the pitcher is the next Pedro Martinez

https://youtu.be/lPS2zQL_uSs