a1abdj, this is an area that is not my expertise, so I'll ask you, as it is yours.

I have stated in this thread I don't believe lock manufacturers maintain secret "master codes" for the electronic locks they sell. My reasoning being that, if they did, and even the mere existence of such "back door" codes became known, much less those codes getting out into the wild, it would instantly destroy their business.

But, that's admittedly an assumption based upon logic.

So I'll ask you: Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

@ensigmatic

Do you not believe Liberty Safes when they say they gave the FBI this code?

quote:

Originally posted by Skull Leader:
@ensigmatic

Do you not believe Liberty Safes when they say they gave the FBI this code?

That seems to be the whole point of this discussion . If that's not the case , what code DID they give them ?

quote:

Originally posted by Skull Leader:
@ensigmatic

Do you not believe Liberty Safes when they say they gave the FBI this code?

Sure I do. But, what I believe they gave them was the access code programmed into the lock at the time of manufacture/sale.

IOW: All the owner had to do was re-program his lock and the code Liberty had on-file would have been rendered moot.

Y'all do realize that some of these e-locks, such as the S&G with which I replaced the failing mechanical lock on my safe, are used by banks and other institutions with high-value contents to be secured, right?

Do you believe, for a minute, banks would use e-locks for which a manufacturer maintained back-door master codes?

Would you, if you were operating a bank charged with securing your customers' valuable assets?

But, ICBW. It's happened before That's why I'm asking an expert in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
a1abdj, this is an area that is not my expertise, so I'll ask you, as it is yours.

I have stated in this thread I don't believe lock manufacturers maintain secret "master codes" for the electronic locks they sell. My reasoning being that, if they did, and even the mere existence of such "back door" codes became known, much less those codes getting out into the wild, it would instantly destroy their business.

But, that's admittedly an assumption based upon logic.

So I'll ask you: Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

How is this up for discussion when Liberty has stated they will change their policy going forward to have this master code removed from the registry?

They've confirmed the practice in their official posts posted in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
How is this up for discussion when Liberty has stated they will change their policy going forward to have this master code removed from the registry?

Read Liberty's statement again.

Nowhere does it state "master code." It states "their access codes." I read that to mean the combination or combinations to their safe or safes.

"Master code" was something brought up by somebody, early in this thread, with no evidence that such master codes actually exist.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
But, what I believe they gave them was the access code programmed into the lock at the time of manufacture/sale.

That is not what happened here.

Unless Nathan Hughes had a mechanical lock? I assumed it was electronic as he stated in his Twitter video "master code" rather than "combination."

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
But, what I believe they gave them was the access code programmed into the lock at the time of manufacture/sale.

That is not what happened here.

Your evidence for that assertion being...?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Unless Nathan Hughes had a mechanical lock? I assumed it was electronic.

You believe Liberty delivered a safe to a customer lacking a combination?

The safes I've seen in stores, some of them I'm sure Liberty safes, have sometimes had the combinations on tags or stickers attached to the safes.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
But, what I believe they gave them was the access code programmed into the lock at the time of manufacture/sale.

That is not what happened here.

Your evidence for that assertion being...?

I'm going by what Nathan Hughes said. He said that Liberty gave the FBI a Master Code to his safe.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
a1abdj, this is an area that is not my expertise, so I'll ask you, as it is yours.

I have stated in this thread I don't believe lock manufacturers maintain secret "master codes" for the electronic locks they sell. My reasoning being that, if they did, and even the mere existence of such "back door" codes became known, much less those codes getting out into the wild, it would instantly destroy their business.

But, that's admittedly an assumption based upon logic.

So I'll ask you: Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

I asked that question and he responded in the affirmative on page 9. Like you, I’m having a really hard time wrapping my head around this.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
You believe Liberty delivered a safe to a customer lacking a combination?

What? No.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
a1abdj, ...
... Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

I asked that question and he responded in the affirmative on page 9.

Ah, I missed that.

No, he did not. In fact he stated quite the opposite:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
It gets a little complicated from there as different lock manufacturers do different things, but the short answer is "Yes, there's another code".

Another code," not "a master code."

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
That code could be a reset code which puts the lock back to it's factory defaults, or an additional user/manager code with programming authority.

My lock has those, and I've re-programmed all three of them: Reset, Manager, and Supervisor.

The Reset code allows the lock to be reset to all factory defaults.

The Manager code allows changing the lock's behavior and allows other codes to be created, deleted, and changed.

The Supervisor code allows the creation, modification, and deletion of User codes.

Bottom line:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
There is not a single code that opens every lock, or every lock by a particular manufacturer. All of these codes are unique to your lock and either set by the lock manufacturer, or programmed by whomever installed the lock.

Here's a little question that hasn't been answered on here yet:
Regarding the "master code" given up to the FBI-
Is it a "master code" for-
THAT SINGULAR safe?
THAT LOT of safes
ALL LIBERTY SAFES?

Now that they have "the code", I'm pretty sure they're going to shred it, and NOT keep it, right? They would NEVER do some shit like that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I'm going by what Nathan Hughes said. He said that Liberty gave the FBI a Master Code to his safe.

This guy from Liberty Safes uses the term "master code" as well. Here he describes what happens when a customer forgets his combo.

I don't see the need to batch these codes. I will admit I'm making an assumption here, but all these electronic locks are probably programed by a computer at the manufacturer. If that is the case there is no reason to use the same reset code on multiple consecutive safes. Each safe would get its own reset code tied to the serial number by the computer.

quote:

Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

Indeed they do, and they've done it for a long time.

Painting with a broad brush, as different lock manufacturers call it something different, or may do it somewhat differently based on the design of the lock.

Let's take the S&G which uses a Master Reset Code (MRC). This code is programmed into the lock by S&G when the lock is made, and included with each lock. Safe manufacturer installs the lock then records this number into their system.

I call the safe manufacturer and they provide me with this number. Using it will reboot the lock back to all of its factory defaults. I then use 1-2-3-4-5-6 to open the safe, and can then reprogram the lock with whatever I wish to program it with (minus the MRC which remains constant). The S&G locks will also go through a process in which it will tell me how many times the MRC has been used.

Still using this basic S&G lock as an example, it will come with the MRC and Manager Code (set to 1-2-3-4-5-6) from S&G. It may also support users 2 through 9. What's to say that the teenager working at the retailer selling these safes wasn't programming a combination into one of the user slots for future misdeeds? You would have no way of knowing absent running through the programming that deletes all user codes.

We have worked with detectives investigating cases of missing contents with no obvious signs of forced entry where an additional user code was being used to gain access. Safe owner realizes something is wrong, assumes somebody may have their code, changes their combination, and somebody is still getting into the safe.

In locks that don't use this type of reset, this is another way the safe manufacturers do it. They set the combination of their choice into the manager's position, and the default 1-2-3-4-5-6 into a user slot. The user can change their own combination, but without the manager's combination has no other programming rights to add/delete users or change the manager's code. Your typical gun safe owner would never notice this as they are generally only using their combination to get in and out of the safe.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
This guy from Liberty Safes uses the term "master code" as well. Here he describes what happens when a customer forgets his combo.

Yes, and S&G refers to the One Code To Rule Them All on my lock as the "Master Code." The default is 123456.

I mentioned it several pages back.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
a1abdj, ...
... Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

I asked that question and he responded in the affirmative on page 9.

Ah, I missed that.

No, he did not. In fact he stated quite the opposite:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
It gets a little complicated from there as different lock manufacturers do different things, but the short answer is "Yes, there's another code".

Another code," not "a master code."

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
That code could be a reset code which puts the lock back to it's factory defaults, or an additional user/manager code with programming authority.

My lock has those, and I've re-programmed all three of them: Reset, Manager, and Supervisor.

The Reset code allows the lock to be reset to all factory defaults.

The Manager code allows changing the lock's behavior and allows other codes to be created, deleted, and changed.

The Supervisor code allows the creation, modification, and deletion of User codes.

Bottom line:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
There is not a single code that opens every lock, or every lock by a particular manufacturer. All of these codes are unique to your lock and either set by the lock manufacturer, or programmed by whomever installed the lock.

I don’t know where you hot those quotes from, but they didn’t come from his response to me.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Have you ever seen any evidence to suggest manufacturers maintain secret back door master codes for the e-locks they sell?

Indeed they do, and they've done it for a long time.

...
Let's take the S&G which uses a Master Reset Code (MRC). This code is programmed into the lock by S&G when the lock is made, and included with each lock.

Ah, but "included with each lock" and "secret" are the opposites of one another, no? IOW: That's not really a "secret back door master code."

First thing I did, when I acquired my S&G lock, was reset the MRC, then change the MC, then add my user codes.

So, even if somebody goes to S&G with my lock's S/N it will do them no good, because I changed whatever they may have on file.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I don’t know where you hot those quotes from, but they didn’t come from his response to me.

Sorry. You said "page 9." I went to page nine and there, right at the top, was an un-attributed quote from somebody asking, and him answering, the question, so I assumed that was the one to which you referred.

quote:

First thing I did, when I acquired my S&G lock, was reset the MRC, then change the MC, then add my user codes.

So, even if somebody goes to S&G with my lock's S/N it will do them no good, because I changed whatever they may have on file.

You can do that because you had the MRC to begin with. That happens if you buy a loose lock. When we install a new lock we provide that information to the lock's owner and instruct them to keep it in a secure location outside of the safe it was installed on. The manufacturers who have already installed locks on safes are generally not going to provide those to you, and most people up until the other day had no idea that such a thing even existed.