Hello,

Small house with two adults. Traditional 50 gallon tank at my local Home Depot comes in right at $600. Wondering if tankless is a good idea. System is electric. Have heard many nightmare stories of traditional tanks flooding and want to avoid that.

Seeking input from those experienced with them.

Thank you!

Jim

Our mechanical contractor refuses to install an electric tankless. We have a propane tankless on a little bitty rent house that has no place to install a conventional water heater. In my opinion the additional initial expense and maintenance for the tankless offsets any minor savings in power cost over a conventional electric water heater. I sure wouldn’t put a tankless in again if I had any real option.

Electric tankless water heater? NO.
Without knowing more details a tanked water heater will be less expensive to buy, install and run.
Now if you could go gas the answer would probably be different, depending on how long you plan on living there.

Remember when asking this, there are Tank people then there are tankless people, Tank people Never ever think a tankless works, no matter the source of power generation, no matter the demand and use, to them Tankless is taboo...

Having said that, we have a LP Rinnai and it's been flawless, can't say enough good things and our LP bill has dropped over having a 50 gallon tank. Which we really don't need now that the kids are gone. IN fact the 50Gal couldn't fill the large garden tub, so the tankless allows that to be filled without issue.

Unless somethings changed the E-Tankless are simply not as efficient as the gas, propane units. That doesn't mean they won't work, or they won't heat the water, it just means $ for $ you won't see the savings with the electric tankless you get with NG or LP.

If it was a vacation cabin with a few weeks use, sure, the cost isn't huge, and recovery times not as important.

If you have NG in your area and it's not to expensive to bring to the house, or, can have an LP pig installed then that would be the routes to use.

I had a tankless installed 3 years ago and we have really enjoyed it. Ours is propane fueled. Electric was ruled out as I think you need 4 30 amp circuits and we were out of space in our breaker box. We got rid of the 50 gallon electric and also gained the closet it was in for other storage as the tankless is mounted on the exterior of the house.

As far as maintenance, it really hasn't needed any. I remove the screen filter on the input side of the unit and it has yet to have any build up on it, but we have good water where we live.

I think I paid 2,600 for the unit installed. However the install was really easy as the gas manifold was 30 feet away and the old water heater was just on the other side of the wall we hung the tankless on and the plumbing was under the house in the crawl space right there as well. I think the unit setup for propane was just over 1,000 by itself.

If this one dies I will buy another. I am not getting that closet back from my wife.

Hello again,

Ok, that’s all I needed - THANK YOU!!

Jim

I used electric tankless in a few flats in and around London ~35 years ago. The heaters were fine, the lack of water pressure (due to the British plumbing system) sucked. I don’t know how electric tankless would handle higher pressure/flow here.

Our house is propane powered tankless and we love it. No running out of hot water with two teenagers. Even used it to fill a hot tub a few times.

Where it would really shine economically would be in a vacation home or crash pad. Case in point the small apartment above the hangar in the city where Mrs. slosig & I grew up. Darn, I wish I had known about tankless when that water heater croaked. It can sit vacant for months on end, then we might be there for a night or two. Keeping a tank of water warm all those months sucks as badly as showing up and not having any hot water. For that application, I’d bet even electric tankless would be orders of magnitude better than the tank unit we have. Oh well, live and learn...

Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I replaced my 50 gallon tank with an AO SMITH 50 gallon a few years ago. It is an ECO mode, rapid recovery, can change the temperature in a second or the mode (eco, normal, winter, etc.) with the push of a button, has a 12 year warranty and rapid recovery...…$659 at Lowe's.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/A-O-S...er-Heater/1000657688

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

I get a big kick out of the advertisements for them stating "instant hot water". Most units are installed in the same place as the old tanks because that's where the plumbing is. It takes just as long for that hot water to reach your faucet. But efficient, absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm not saying NO on electric tankless because of the efficiency. They are just as efficient, I'm saying NO on a retrofit. I'm saying no, because the majority of houses would need a much larger electric service to their house from the power company, a new breaker panel, new wiring to the instant hot water heater due to the amount of amperage they consume. Generally they need 100 amps going to them or more, compared to 30 amps to a 50 gallon tank heater. When you factor in all of these additional costs, getting an electrician in, pulling permits, then it doesn't make sense as a retrofit when you factor all of the additional costs such as in the OP's situation. Usually people replace an existing water heater, after it has started leaking. On a new build, I'm all for electric instant hot water heater.

In my previous house the water heater was in the (1 car) garage that was cramped for space with all my hobbies. Circa 2006 it died and I replaced it with an electric tankless that mounted on the wall. I ran the 2 ea 30A 240VAC circuits over there myself, as well as doing the install myself. With me doing the labor, it was only about 15% more to install, and freed up a lot of useful floor space. I loved the endless hot water, and my power bill went down a little. Not a ton though. That heater went tits up in 2018m and I replaced it with a similar new tankless. Because the wiring and everything were already there, it was very low marginal cost increase over a tank.

My current house was built in 2004 and the original heater crapped out in 2016. At that time I looked at running extra power over there and going tankless again, but in that house I have a three car garage, and the heater is on the side of my wife's parking spot. No real need for the floor space. After running the numbers for an afternoon, I grabbed a nice tank heater and installed it.

Bottom line: the tankless are nice, and are more efficient, but if you have to pay labor to run the extra power that savings will be eaten up quickly. They shine in places where either you really need the space, or you normally run out of hot water. If those situations don't apply to you, there is very little marginal gain to going tankless.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm not saying NO on electric tankless because of the efficiency. They are just as efficient, I'm saying NO on a retrofit. I'm saying no, because the majority of houses would need a much larger electric service to their house from the power company, a new breaker panel, new wiring to the instant hot water heater due to the amount of amperage they consume. Generally they need 100 amps going to them or more, compared to 30 amps to a 50 gallon tank heater. When you factor in all of these additional costs, getting an electrician in, pulling permits, then it doesn't make sense as a retrofit when you factor all of the additional costs such as in the OP's situation. Usually people replace an existing water heater, after it has started leaking. On a new build, I'm all for electric instant hot water heater.

You're reasoning for excluding electric and not gas is unjustified.

Gas units require new venting, combustion air, an electrical supply, larger gas lines, drains, etc. They're not a simple direct replacement.

I use tankless because I want bottomless hot water when I want that, and for no other reason.

Screw the cost and space differences, it is entirely about convenience for me.

I can take a 60min hot shower, wash clothes, and run the dishwasher at once if I want to.

The very idea that we have homes costing hundreds of thousands and such, in 2020 no less, that only have about 30min of hot water at once is crazy, to me, and who wants a giant tank and that hassle.

No sir. Not I.

I have a Rinnai tankless propane. It is an outdoor mount. Have had it for 14 or 15 years.
Big house, 3 kids, zero issues.
I Don’t know if I would have the confidence in electric. But can testify to gas.
This is one appliance that cheap is not the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm not saying NO on electric tankless because of the efficiency. They are just as efficient, I'm saying NO on a retrofit. I'm saying no, because the majority of houses would need a much larger electric service to their house from the power company, a new breaker panel, new wiring to the instant hot water heater due to the amount of amperage they consume. Generally they need 100 amps going to them or more, compared to 30 amps to a 50 gallon tank heater. When you factor in all of these additional costs, getting an electrician in, pulling permits, then it doesn't make sense as a retrofit when you factor all of the additional costs such as in the OP's situation. Usually people replace an existing water heater, after it has started leaking. On a new build, I'm all for electric instant hot water heater.

You're reasoning for excluding electric and not gas is unjustified.

Gas units require new venting, combustion air, an electrical supply, larger gas lines, drains, etc. They're not a simple direct replacement.

Might be a first, I'm agreeing with Jimmy over Excam.

The electrical line is already there. You change existing 240v 30a to 120v 20a. If hot water heater is in an unfinished area with a direct route out the house there is no drywall damage to run venting where as there is drywall damage 90%+ of the time for electric tankless. the gas line does not need to be larger, just more gas, so you just run a split system and turn that line into 2PSI if you can't easily replace the gas line.

Best, best, best case scenario for electrical costs associated with conversion is electrical panel right next to HWH in unfinished basement (very rare around here).

Here's how I'd quote the electrical.

$75 (3) 40a breakers.
$120 for (3) 40 lengths of 10-2 rx
$325 labor (assumes two hours, maybe less if plumber makes final connections.

$520 just for Electric under best case.

***Major assumptions, unfinished area with line of sight to HWH, no disconnects needed. Room in electrical panel(s) for six spaces.


I've had the electrical costs on the ones I've done run from $650 to $5,000. The higher end included new electrical service to accommodate the tankless.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

Actually an electric tankless is not efficient vs gas.
Therefore if only saving money is the objective then it is not the wisest decision.
You won't recover the extra costs of the equipment and the installation anytime soon.
However, that being said when our 50 gal 20 year old tank goes we are considering the tankless (electric) for a replacement.
It will cost more, take up less space, work well and the last one we ever have to install.
So probably yes but not on a cost basis.
YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

Might be a first, I'm agreeing with Jimmy over Excam.

as there is drywall damage 90%+ of the time for electric tankless. the gas line does not need to be larger, just more gas, so you just run a split system and turn that line into 2PSI if you can't easily replace the gas line.

***Major assumptions

Ya think?

Drywall damage to install an electric unit/electrical supply? Seriously?
Most places will not allow a 2psi system for residential. There goes reusing the existing line.

And I stated electric vrs electric.
Not disputing that gas is almost always cheaper for operation (I say almost, because utility cost vary area to area).

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

Actually an electric tankless is not efficient vs gas.

Never said it was, I stated:
Gas tankless vrs standard tank.
Electric tankless vrs standard tank.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Electric tankless is a big NO, due to the power requirements. I'm a huge fan of Nat gas or Propane tankless.

I see the above comment posted all the time. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gas tankless replacing a standard tank (gas)... saves standby loss. Endless hot water.
Electric tankless replacing a standard tank (electric)... saves the same standby loss. Endless hot water.

Water temp is water temp.
Gas (btu) used to warm said water is the same.
Electric (KW/btu) used to warm said water is the same.

Sure, I wouldn't replace a gas unit with an electric tankless, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm not saying NO on electric tankless because of the efficiency. They are just as efficient, I'm saying NO on a retrofit. I'm saying no, because the majority of houses would need a much larger electric service to their house from the power company, a new breaker panel, new wiring to the instant hot water heater due to the amount of amperage they consume. Generally they need 100 amps going to them or more, compared to 30 amps to a 50 gallon tank heater. When you factor in all of these additional costs, getting an electrician in, pulling permits, then it doesn't make sense as a retrofit when you factor all of the additional costs such as in the OP's situation. Usually people replace an existing water heater, after it has started leaking. On a new build, I'm all for electric instant hot water heater.

You're reasoning for excluding electric and not gas is unjustified.

Gas units require new venting, combustion air, an electrical supply, larger gas lines, drains, etc. They're not a simple direct replacement.

The electric supply is already there that went to the tank unit and sufficiently sized for the gas tankless unit, you may have to convert it from 240v to 120v but that is easy compared to running new/more wires from panel to water heater.

It depends on what region you are in and the exact situation of each home. Rarely have I seen a house that had a large enough electric service from the street and panel in the home to upgrade to tankless electric heater without replacing all of that which is very expensive as Skins pointed out. Rarely have I seen where going to an electric tankless that the homeowner would ever see the savings over their ownership time when the install costs are factored in.

Here in Florida and southern states, converting from electric tank to gas tankless is much easier and cheaper than electric tankless. Most houses in Florida are not piped to gas even though it is run down the street, because we don't need the amount of HVAC heating like in Northern states. Generally in my area the water heater is mounted in the garage or laundry room right next to the clothes dryer and the laundry room is almost always on the inside of an exterior wall because of the dryer vent that is run through the wall in most all situations. That being said, the gas company will run the gas line to the house and connect it to the appliances for free, IF you have 2 appliances or more that will be using gas.


So everyone just mounts a Rinnea outside of the house on the exterior wall right outside of where the old water heater was, so there is no ductwork to install (it's self ducting). Electrical you simply extend the existing wires a few feet and convert to 120 volts, easy peasy. Pop a few holes in the exterior wall to run the water supply and discharge line and electrical through the wall as it's right there. Buy a new gas clothes dryer for $500 and done. The gas company runs the line and connects gas to both for free. So costs are minimal compared to converting to electric tankless in the same house. Since we don't have a large draw for HVAC heating, almost all of the time the electric service to the house needs to be upgraded from street to house, panel in house needs to be upgraded, and larger wires run to the tankless from the panel.