Suppose a PFC is given an order by his commander. Could a higher-ranking officer from another unit change that soldiers orders? Would the soldier be obligated to both sets of orders?

I ask because I've read numerous stories of paratroopers on D-Day, who, while trying to find their units, were ordered by officers from other units to fight with them.

The last lawful order is followed.

Important thing to realize is there is a 'chain of command' and unit organization.

If an officer or NCO starts ordering personnel not in their chain of command / unit around, there are gonna be issues - because while they outrank those personnel, they don't have the authority to just commandeer any personnel they like.

Obviously in a wartime situation such as D-Day, when unit organization was pretty much out the window for a good amount of time, it is common sense that officers / NCOs would corral singletons and small groups of soldiers to fight more effectively - however when units started getting together, individuals were released to join their original units.

quote:

Originally posted by Tavman:
The last lawful order is followed.

ehhh... It's pretty situational and that's not really taking into account your Chain of Command.

If my 1SG tells me to do something, then in the process of doing it, another 1SG tells me to do something different, I'm more than likely going to do whatever it was that my 1SG told me to do. At the VERY least I'd first inform my 1SG that I was being given an order from another CoC.

Lots of variables that have to be taken into account.

D-Day was an ordeal of its own. Units were scattered and people had to link up and form units of their own until reunited with their original unit or reassigned.

What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

quote:

Originally posted by Jester814:

quote:

Originally posted by Tavman:
The last lawful order is followed.

ehhh... It's pretty situational and that's not really taking into account your Chain of Command.

If my 1SG tells me to do something, then in the process of doing it, another 1SG tells me to do something different, I'm more than likely going to do whatever it was that my 1SG told me to do. At the VERY least I'd first inform my 1SG that I was being given an order from another CoC.

Lots of variables that have to be taken into account.

D-Day was an ordeal of its own. Units were scattered and people had to link up and form units of their own until reunited with their original unit or reassigned.

Your duty is to tell the new superior of conflicting orders not to decide which one you're to follow. If the new order giver still decides that it's the best path to follow it remains the last given and should be followed.

The resulting aftermath if your CoC decides it wasn't right is on the superior.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

No difference, rank is rank.
One most know the rank structure, all Captains are not created equal.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Important thing to realize is there is a 'chain of command' and unit organization.

If an officer or NCO starts ordering personnel not in their chain of command / unit around, there are gonna be issues - because while they outrank those personnel, they don't have the authority to just commandeer any personnel they like.

Obviously in a wartime situation such as D-Day, when unit organization was pretty much out the window for a good amount of time, it is common sense that officers / NCOs would corral singletons and small groups of soldiers to fight more effectively - however when units started getting together, individuals were released to join their original units.

This.

As an officer I could/would make 'on the spot corrections' of soldiers in other units - but it was not proper to order them around as if they are your own.

And I was in the 82nd ABN. We practiced assembly on the dropzone in all our training missions. It is actually a beautiful thing to be a part of. In some ways it is confusing and chaotic. But it is also a feat of small unit re-organization.

Leaders and soldiers know the mission. They jump and immediately begin re-assembly using various visual aids and techniques. Corporals take charge of privates. Once they find a sergeant- he takes them in or sends them to where they need to be if that is known and possible. Small units become larger units - link up with other larger units - pretty soon you have a reconstituted fighting force- usually 45 minutes or so. Even in complete darkness.

The mission is briefed many times ahead of the drop - the subordinate unit leaders know - and brief - the minimum force they need to assemble to commence their mission. Stragglers get policed up and linked up as quickly as possible.

D-Day was a chaotic Airborne Op because - in part- they had no modern Command and Control mechanisms (radios, GPS, etc) and the ability for the planes to navigate and accurately drop the forces at night was minimal. Basically they landed scattered to the Four Winds.

---------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

No difference, rank is rank.
One most know the rank structure, all Captains are not created equal.

I dealt with this a bit. I was an Army MP where we did a joint patrol with the Air force and we worked out of an Air force PMO. Every now and then this happened to me and every time I'd talk to MY chain of command.
They'd try some shit but the best way to get around it was to talk to my desk Sgt. And let him figure it out, I never immediately did what the air force said because we didn't want them thinking that they could just make us their bitches for the lack of a better term.
It really pissed our commander off

When I was USAF Security Police, we took orders from only 3 people at the local base level:
Our squadron commander (or DO) and the base commander.
Everyone else could pound sand. Quite a few officers tried to order me to do things and I delighted in ignoring them. The immediate response to my insubordination was "I will report you to your commander"! Yes, sir! Do that.
Based on my experience, having a limited chain of command was a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

No difference, rank is rank.
One most know the rank structure, all Captains are not created equal.

My uncle retired as a Colonel in the USMC. At one point, he was a Captain, stationed at Norfolk Naval base. Whenever he made phone calls, and introduced himself as Captain Hubbard, he got stuff taken care of immediately. He thought that was pretty amusing.

For those not in the know, a USMC captain is an 03, while in the Navy a captain is an 06. Pretty significant difference in the way people treat you.

quote:

Originally posted by ASKSmith:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

No difference, rank is rank.
One most know the rank structure, all Captains are not created equal.

My uncle retired as a Colonel in the USMC. At one point, he was a Captain, stationed at Norfolk Naval base. Whenever he made phone calls, and introduced himself as Captain Hubbard, he got stuff taken care of immediately. He thought that was pretty amusing.

For those not in the know, a USMC captain is an 03, while in the Navy a captain is an 06. Pretty significant difference in the way people treat you.

I've had similar experiences. It's kinda fun at first.

Military police is a bit different in that you have a dual COC. You have the regular COC up through to your MAYCOM, then you have the LEO COC of which the last two stops are the PMO and either a divisional or base commander. Any superrior officer in that COC can countermand an issued order, but may not be able to do the same witn a standing order.

In the case of something like Normandy you have to use your head. Does the counter order make sense given the real time situation? Do you have a reasonable chance of following through on your issued orders? In WWII it was not unheard of for allied soldiers to get cut off from their parent units and end up fighting with whomever they were with until there was time to locate the lost soldier's COC.

quote:

Originally posted by ASKSmith:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
What if given orders by a higher rank from another branch of the military?

No difference, rank is rank.
One most know the rank structure, all Captains are not created equal.

My uncle retired as a Colonel in the USMC. At one point, he was a Captain, stationed at Norfolk Naval base. Whenever he made phone calls, and introduced himself as Captain Hubbard, he got stuff taken care of immediately. He thought that was pretty amusing.

For those not in the know, a USMC captain is an 03, while in the Navy a captain is an 06. Pretty significant difference in the way people treat you.

Ha! Hilarious.

My unit used to have an E5 who’s surname was “Major.” It was funny when we’d have a detail and say something like “Sgt Major wants this Humvee ready by 1400.” Things would just get done.