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So being age 73 I went to doctor for annual physical and labs. Everything was good including lipids and vitamin D and my blood pressure is good and I take no prescription meds currently. except I asked for my testosterone to be tested and it came back low. Fed 2024 it was 259 total and 54 free which is supposedly OK for my age of 73. However last week it was 163 total and 35 free test done at 8:15 AM. His comment via the "portal" was T total low but T free OK, more labs ordered which I am waiting results on. Not sure how relevant that the T free level is "OK" with the total that low. This really bummed me out as I have been doing strength training 3 times a week and zone 2 cardio too for two full years now. I am 6'2' 200 pounds and my doctors tell I am very fit with good posture and look a good ten years younger than my age. My diet is high protein (try to get at least 120 grams a day), carbs, and healthy fats with very little sugar or processed foods. I take supplements including vitamin D, magnesium glycinate, zinc glycinate, Omega 3 fish oils high in EPA/DHA, B vitamin complex, creatine, and boron. I have never smoked and drink extremely little alcohol and maybe even none for the year, occasional glass of wine at best. Right now I am waiting for more labs and then see what my primary doctor advises. I also have an appointment with my urologist in 2 months and if necessary I can make an appointment with my wife's endocrinologist who my wife says would have a ton of labs done for me including a whole lot of vitamins and minerals . Unless a retest shows my numbers close to what they were last time I am probably going to pursue TRT. I have been more tired/lower on energy for the last few weeks too. I sure as hell don't want to lose any of the gains I made from the 300 workouts in the last 2 years if I can do anything reasonable about it. So far when I train I am still making progressive gains, though slowly. So I am looking for any feedback, experiences (good/bad), advice from those who are on TRT (Testosterone Replacement therapy), have been in the past, know someone who has, or have expertise in the subject including what method of application was used. Thanks for reading and any input!This message has been edited. Last edited by: grumpy1, | ||
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Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
I have not, and monitor my levels twice a year. From what I’ve seen and read, there is absolutely some amount of quackery involved. I do not know how much, though. Interested to read members’ responses… Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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I swear I had something for this |
I can tell you that Joe Rogan is a big proponent of it, and several MMA fighters used it until it was banned as a steroid. You definitely won't lose any of your gains on TRT, and you'll probably make even more. Something I have heard that you should ask your Doctor about is you'll be on TRT the rest of your life to keep your testosterone levels up. | |||
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Thanks. I already talked to one of my gym buddies, he is 58, who also says he has low T. He said he was on it for about a year when he was around 50 and felt better with higher level but didn't like applying the gel he was using every day so he stopped so I don't know if it really is a lifelong thing but probably something not to go cold turkey on but I surely will ask. | |||
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^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are downsides to this. I am not an endocrinologist,but I believe it raises your cancer risk as well as aggressive behaviors. See a specialist for a consultation. | |||
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Testosterone treatment has its issues. My endocrinologist and primary thought that it would do me more harm than good. I have the medication to inject myself but have not taken it. Do your research | |||
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Step by step walk the thousand mile road![]() |
I use injectable TRT an hav for several years. I just restarted after 20 weeks off (knee eplacmets). It makes a difference. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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Alea iacta est![]() |
I do, and have been taking it for almost two years (injectable). It makes a huge difference. Under 200 is really low. My doctor keeps mine between 800-1000. Benefits are muscle recovery, mood is elated, I have more patience, libido is increased, there are a lot of upsides. Downsides are higher cholesterol. I’m not a fan of taking shots, so weekly shots kind of sucks, but it’s subcutaneous, so that helps a lot. Aggressive behavior was mentioned, but that’s usually only if you take too high of a dose.
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Thanks for the input. Possibly you weren't experiencing any symptoms that affected your quality of life that much anyway? I know it depends how low the number is too but to me 163 is pretty dang low. Many would consider the 259 I had last time to be OK but I felt better at that time and it was above 250. I will get multiple opinions.This message has been edited. Last edited by: grumpy1, | |||
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Thanks for the input and glad to hear it helped. | |||
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Partial dichotomy |
It sounds like you're getting re-tested? Hopefully that number will be better and that there was something up with the first test. Seems like a drastic change from not long ago, especially as active as you are. Good luck! | |||
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Thanks for the input and great to hear it helped. Right now I am experiencing tiredness, low energy, and hard to get motivated. It could be I am fighting off something as I have been sneezing a bit and more than usual sinus congestion but no fever. if that is what it is I should feel better before too much longer and I will be elated. But if I get re tested and it still is really low I am wary of risk of waiting until symptoms arrive/get worse especially at my age. | |||
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Thanks and yeah, that kind of shocked me. Standard protocol is to get tested again. One change I made from last time is I started taking magnesium malate in morning and magnesium glycinate before bed. I have gone back to just magnesium glycinate is it is much more bioavailable. Magnesium is important for so much including testosterone. | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
TRT has come a long way in the last 20 years, as has the research on benefits and risks. The recent research is showing no causative link between T and cancer. The claims of causing prostate or testicular cancer were based on old and very questionable studies. TRT can increase estrogens, and that can increase the risk of cancers, but the Estrogen can be suppressed to mitigate the risk. I'm doing a PSA every 6 months, which is out of an abundance of caution and probably a bit of my doc doing CYA. Research though shows no difference in prostate cancer rates long term between TRT and placebo. What they did find was that some men already have an undetected cancer when starting TRT, and then it is found with a PSA after a few months on TRT, and then it is blamed on TRT even though the cancer already existed. My doc did a PSA with the initial blood tests before starting me on TRT. There is a spit test for a different way to read systemic T levels than the blood test. It is an annoying test to do but my doc alternates that and the blood test every 3 months. When we get everything stabilized where we want it, the tests will be every 6 months. I am currently on TRT again, after having tried it about 20 years ago. Back then I was on a gel product which I applied every morning to the back of my shoulders. I felt like a million dollars after a few weeks! Like I was 18 yrs old again. I put on muscle, felt strong and energetic. Libido was waaay up there. But it was crazy expensive, beyond my budget, and I really disliked having to wait for the gel to dry/absorb before getting dressed, so I stopped. Now I am in my mid 60's. I'm on a cream product applied to the scrotum. Yes, that is the state of the art for TRT. So far my T is not coming up as well as it did with the gel, though we are still experimenting. Two different types of applicators have failed in the past 3 months, which annoys me. The last one failed during a 2 week trip to Europe and Africa, so yeah not acceptable. If the pharmacist can't find a reliable dosing dispenser I may have to back to a gel in those tiny squeeze tubes. The other option is an injection. Typically done twice per week, and you can self-inject. The T level is not as stable as compared to the cream or gel because you do the cream or gel daily. But quite a few men have good results with the injections. My doc is optimizing my estrogen and progesterone levels along with T. Lowering estrogen reduces cancer risks, and a low but non-zero progesterone level can be protective against cancer. My doc is a Wellness practitioner who specializes in hormones and overall wellness. Weight loss, muscle increase, healthy diet, healthy blood pressure, etc. She has me on a bunch of supplements, similar to the ones you are on. The first time I tried TRT 20 years ago it was with my Urologist who didn't consider anything other than the T levels. | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Check out Dr Abraham Morgantaler for good information about TRT. Dr. Rena Malik did a podcast with him that was very informative, though it now seems to be cut into shorter bits of about 13-15 minutes each. Find the one about diagnosing low T where he talks about looking at more than just total and free T. | |||
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Thanks Fly Sig. You two posts are very informative and helpful. I wouldn't want big T numbers, just enough to help alleviate symptoms hopefully, too minimize risk, which I would guess for my age be around the 300-400 range. I will checkout those videos and good luck with getting the application that works for you. Sounds like you have a terrific doctor. | |||
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Jodel-Time![]() |
I was on it for about three years, from 2011-2013, if I remember correctly. My experience was not good. I had tested low. I can't remember the exact number but I think it was around 400. The doc suggested TRT. He said he was on it and it worked great so I went ahead and gave the okay. He did have a wellness/hormone specialist on staff at the time but he wanted to treat me himself (I think it was mostly about the billing to pad his numbers). That should have been my first red flag but I was uneducated about TRT and went ahead and let him do it. I was on the daily gel. My test levels eventually rose to 800+ with a one-time high of 1100+. Again, if I am remembering correctly. The first year was great. I made great gains with my cycling and resistance workouts. I felt fantastic; as though I was 30 again. The second year was simply a plateau. No more gains and I didn't feel as good as before. However, my cycling was still doing okay. The third year was when things went bad. I started feeling odd. I seemed to be losing the gains that I had made. I was more tired and not recovering as well. Something was off but I didn't know what. At that point, I should have put 2 and 2 together and asked to see the wellness specialist but I didn't. My last few tests should have been the biggest red flag of all. My doc kept telling me that my estrogen was higher but he wasn't worried since I did all of that working out. I should have asked specifically what my levels were but I still trusted him. I got to feeling really weird and having occasional, what I would call "hot flashes". Then one day, my body just broke. I had a massive hot flash and pretty much collapsed. I was mostly impotent for a brief time and quite weak overall. When I realized that it had to be the TRT, I then "secretly" met with the wellness specialist. She looked at my numbers and the expression on her face was almost one of horror. She liked to keep her male patients estrogen levels in the low twenties. According to the scale, a male should absolutely not be over a level of 49; I was in the upper fifties! My body had been converting all of the extra T to estrogen. She was furious with the doc for letting it happen and did her best to try to get me back on track. She explained that she would cycle men on and off of T. If you just do T all the time, your testes will stop producing it and will shrink. On the off cycles, she would have them use a subcutaneous injection of a drug that I can't remember the name of. Basically, it prompted the testes to start producing again. That's what we used to try to get me back to being more normal. It took me about a year to get back to about 80%-85% of my previous self, by my estimate. By that, I mean my perception of my exercise performance as well as my overall life. I never did recover completely. Now, 12 years down the road, I'm 62 and definitely feeling it. My recovery isn't what it once was. I think my T levels the last couple of years have been in the upper 300s. A small part of me wishes that I could have at least some of those fantastic abilities back but the rest of me is terrified of trying TRT again. I take quite a few supplements, including the ones you do, to try and give myself every chance of keeping things going naturally, and that's where I'll stay for now. I saw Fly-Sig saying that things are different these days but, given my previous "injuries", I'm afraid that it might mess me up even more. All I can say is to please do your research before you run out and try it. Find a specialist, weigh all the pros and cons, and then make an informed decision. Sorry for the book but you did ask for anyone with experience! ![]() | |||
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WOW! Thanks for sharing your cautionary tale Mboroman and sorry you had to go through this. ![]() | |||
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I can speak to this as I have been on TRT for over 10 years. First, some comments based on information from 4 different urologists: 1) TRT does not cause cancer, nor does increase the risk of cancer. It does not increase cholesterol in my experience. However, it can increase the risk of heart attack in some patients. The reason is that it increases the density of red blood cells in the blood, essentially making blood “thicker”. This is easily detected in a routine blood test - specifically, the Hematocrit level. This can be easily addressed by donating a pint of blood every 3-4 months or so. 2) There are several ways to administer Testosterone: there are patches that can be worn, injections, gel that can be applied, and finally, implants in your butt that have to be replenished every 3-4 months. The patches did not work for me, but the gel does. That’s what I have been using for 10 years. Regarding cancer, as I said, it won’t cause cancer. BUT, if you get (or already have) cancer, it will cause the cancer to grow faster. If you are at risk for prostate cancer (as I am, since my father had it), your urologist should monitor your PSA and perform a DRE every 6 months or so. My PSA was stable at 1.3 for many years, until I had Aquablation on my prostate for BPH. This removed about 40% of my prostate, and now my PSA is stable at 0.3. Note the TRT therapy did not cause the enlarged prostate, it was unrelated. | |||
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Thanks so much for that info btanchors! Glad to hear the gel application has been working for you. In regards to cancer please clarify. Did your urologists say that TRT will cause ANY cancer to grow faster? I have read that applies to prostate and breast cancer and something to do with the way they interact with androgens. I am hoping not to need TRT but trying to become more educated about it just in case. Thanks again. | |||
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