Please folks, this is not about Minneapolis in particular.

Para has said he doesn't want to hear it.

This is about so much more, it is about all of us and the attack on our liberties here in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

And on what empirical evidence do you base the claim that it was EVER like this?

I don't need empirical evidence - my dad was a Baltimore cop for most of my childhood and I witnessed these kinds of cops in action myself. Aside from what I witnessed, he told me stories of how it was and how it started to change in the 80s. He got out because he could see the writing on the wall and the direction it was headed.

Baltimore cops back in the day were known for twirling their espantoons on foot patrol. My dad was one of the best at this and he still has his today. Yes, they twirled them for show sometimes and to send a message at other times. They used them when necessary for sure. But they also knew most of the people they were using them on. They worked the same area every day, they knew who was good and who wasn't, they knew the parents of the incorrigible youths, etc. No one filed lawsuits, no one filmed with cell phones, it was a different era for sure.

In the 80s and 90s drugs changed a lot of that. Cops left foot patrol for patrol cars, and instead of getting to know people it was a lot of corner clearing and pocket checking. Also many cops moved out of the city and into the suburbs so no longer were they policing their neighbors. Combine these factors with terribly inept city leadership and you have the
situation in Baltimore, and I suspect many other cities, that you see today. I wouldn't blame the cops entirely or society entirely; it seems to be a combination of many factors.

My best friend is a deputy and a great guy. My neighbor just left the BPD last year after 24 years of service and he's a great person as well. I respect good cops. But unfortunately the profession has a habit of attracting some power hungry assholes as well. True leaders in each and every department across the country have to step up to weed these guys out as they are causing so much damage to the profession.

After reading this thread, I’m more than certain I could never do a policeman’s job.

Madonna weighs in with her high powered perception. Oh, and calls for extreme gun control on top of a classy “ fuck the police”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...eorge-003203887.html

She didn’t seem to mind the police (or guns) when her body guards shot an unarmed man twice.

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
I have anger towards the people who use race and the police to further their political agenda.

Personally I don't recall any serious race issues since 2016- The last Presidential Election cycle.

Does the name Reginald Denny ring a bell?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...ck_on_Reginald_Denny

Nothing more embarrassing than being stupid to make yourself relevant when you are a has been.

What, really, do you want law enforcement to do? After many years in law enforcement, at all levels, I believe the boiled down essence of law enforcement remain unchanged. Considered the father of modern policing, Sir Robert Peel's 9 principles of law enforcement were published in 1829. Here are the 9 principles. Consider how relevant they are 170 years later.
1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
2. To recognize always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
3. To recognize always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing cooperation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
4. To recognize always that the extent to which the cooperation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
5. To seek and preserve public favor, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humor, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public cooperation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. To recognize always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
9. To recognize always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

The order of precedence in his list of principles is no accident. #1 and #2 are absolutes. In #1, the word FORCE in Police Force, by military means, is the operative word. Policing has always been militarized, the idea that it is something new ignores history. And #2-#9 deals with relationships with the community. Certainly as important today as ever.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Madonna weighs in with her high powered perception. Oh, and calls for extreme gun control on top of a classy “ fuck the police”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...eorge-003203887.html
She didn’t seem to mind the police (or guns) when her body guards shot an unarmed man twice.

Maybe she actually wants to fuck the police. It is Madonna after all.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
... the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

There's been a big move away from this in the mind of a decent chunk of folks, especially in the last few decades. It's gone from "everyone has a duty to take an active interest in their own safety and the safety of the community, crime prevention/intervention is the responsibility of all citizens, etc." to "Don't get involved, don't intervene, don't defend yourself... Just call the police and wait for them to show up".

It's not helped by the police agencies themselves, for various PR and liability reasons. How often do we see police brass go on camera after someone foils a crime in progress and have to say some variation of "That person did a great job. But obviously, we don't recommend that anyone get involved. Call us instead. We have the training and equipment to handle the problem for you".


Granted, I'm not advocating for vigilantism, or recklessly inserting yourself into a situation in an overzealous manner (see the news stories of some yahoo concealed carrier cranking off rounds towards a suspected shoplifter). It's more of a mindset thing, where everyone used to feel a duty to take an active interest in the welfare of the community in a number of different respects, whereas nowadays many people feel no personal stake in it.

I guess it's mostly about a move away from a true sense of "community" in our modern society. That dovetails with what some other posters have said already, with the shift in police/community relationships being just a symptom of the larger issue of overall community breakdown.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
The pendulum has swung too far.

LE has too much power, and I see liberties being trampled on.

Tell me something- since you're now revealing your true feelings about the police, why in the Holy Hell did you start a thread with all this soft, weak crap about "Oh, I love the police, REALLY, but...but...I...I have doubts. Help validate my feelings. Should I be feeling this?"

Huh? Why did you feel the need to act deceptively? Why didn't you just have the courage of your convictions and say upfront that you have a problem with the police? All the wavering, girlish pissing was unnecessary. You know EXACTLY how you feel, yet you come in here to pull this kind of stunt. What's your problem?

And I'll tell ya- you know what you can do with your precious "feelings".

Be a man.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

Madonna weighs in with her high powered perception. Oh, and calls for extreme gun control on top of a classy “ fuck the police”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...eorge-003203887.html

She didn’t seem to mind the police (or guns) when her body guards shot an unarmed man twice.

Fucken hypocrite. Is anybody surprised?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
The pendulum has swung too far.

LE has too much power, and I see liberties being trampled on.

Tell me something- since you're now revealing your true feelings about the police, why in the Holy Hell did you start a thread with all this soft, weak crap about "Oh, I love the police, REALLY, but...but...I...I have doubts. Help validate my feelings. Should I be feeling this?"

Huh? Why did you feel the need to act deceptively? Why didn't you just have the courage of your convictions and say upfront that you have a problem with the police? All the wavering, girlish pissing was unnecessary. You know EXACTLY how you feel, yet you come in here to pull this kind of stunt. What's your problem?

And I'll tell ya- you know what you can do with your precious "feelings".

Be a man.

I completely and unabashedly apologize! This is absolutely not my intention.

I am having many thoughts, they are at odds with each other, and in the course of this post, it has helped clarify some things to me. I really appreciate the posts and folks thoughts. There is a vast well of great folks here that I trust.

I also am trying to honor your wishes, and keep away from specific events.

Please accept my apologies for muffled thinking and poor communication.

I don't think generalized 'anger toward police' is any more warranted than hatred for all of <group X> for actions taken by individuals belonging to <group X>.

Example. There was a young black guy in Detroit caught on video repeatedly punching a defenseless, demented old white guy in a medical facility and then claiming he hurt himself falling. Is 'anger toward young black guys' now somehow appropriate? Surely not.

People are individuals, not groups, and are not responsible for the actions of others. Those specific people in uniform have a lot to answering to do, IMO. Other people in uniform? There's no logic to being irritated at them for what someone else did.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Madonna weighs in with her high powered perception. Oh, and calls for extreme gun control on top of a classy “ fuck the police”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...eorge-003203887.html

She didn’t seem to mind the police (or guns) when her body guards shot an unarmed man twice.

Only the mind of a liberal.

“The police are murdering citizens and so we should ensure that they are the only ones with guns!!!”

Of course she’s taking it a step further and advocating the cops shouldn’t have guns either, even though this guy wasn’t killed with a gun, but gun control rarely affects police.

Anger towards police? For me, the answer is no. Anger towards the specific police officers involved in this atrocity. Yes, absolutely. The damage they have done can't be measured. This sure looked like a strait up murder to me. The sooner they face the consequences of their actions, the better, in particular the officer that chose to choke the life out of the man.

Choosing to be angry at everyone who wears a badge is as bad as choosing to be angry at everyone with black skin or white skin.

None of the riots we’ve seen in my lifetime have anything to do with the police. They aren’t angry at the police. They are angry at the idea of “systematic racism” that they’ve been told exists by black leaders, the media and various politicians. Especially in the last 12 years. They are angry at an imaginary “man” who sits on high in a big office smoking cigars and keeping the black man down. (If that man exists by the way he most certainly votes democrat). The police are simply a scapegoat. Something they can see.

If they were angry over police violence they’d be out marching when a whites women gets killed by a brown diversity hire after she called the cops in the first place. If they cared about racism they’d be out marching when 14 or so black teenagers randomly assault a white guy eating lunch. Or when four black teenagers kidnap a special needs kid and make him drink out of a toilet while yelling fuck Trump.

None of this is about police or racism. It’s animals acting like animals because acting like a human is tough and they are being told they don’t have to.