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| Member |
Might get one of these this year and was wondering about the pros and cons of the two types? Power outages have been infrequent, but I’d like reassurance that the sump pump, several refrigerators, freezers and HVAC heating/cooling services can continue. Don’t see the grid becoming more robust in the future, just the opposite. Would run it with natural gas which already provides hot water and winter heat (kitchen is all electric). Recommendations? | ||
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| Member |
Air. Limit your maintenance needs. You’re not powering a major facility. I have a 12kW Generac (branded as Carrier), natural gas, since 2004. Longest run time is 3 days. Just a couple years ago, in fact. Getting time for some larger maintenance items after 20 years, but still runs fine. -- I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. JALLEN 10/18/18 https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...610094844#7610094844 | |||
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Member |
We got a couple air cooled Generac quotes last year  Sticker shock for sure. Part of it was the extra expense from our gas supply & elec panel being on opposite sides of the house & having to make a run through the attic. The Enemy's gate is down. | |||
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Member |
I have had a Kohler whole house, air-cooled, natural gas backup generator at homes I have owned in Virginia and South Carolina. Both were purchased with strong encouragement and incentives from my insurance company (which wanted all HVAC and alarm systems functional 24-7); I received a discount on my insurance once the generators were installed and operational. Longest continuous run time for Virgnia generator was a couple of days; same type of generator at now deceased MIL's home in Virginia was over a week. Nice benefit was all appliances and computers continued to operate. Even though we have had several serious storms where I live in South Carolina, power has yet to go out so no continuous runtime to report. Recommend professional installation. | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
Can you expand on this...I've NEVER heard of such encouragement (OR incentives!) from an insurance company. While I could 'almost' see the alarm system angle, and I do mean almost, why would they care about your HVAC? You live in the south, so the likelihood of frozen pipes is not that high, therefore the H (heat) ain't that critical, and surely they don't care if the AC works, right? Who is your insurer and what incentives/discounts did they offer? ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Three Generations of Service  |
My air-cooled Kohler has been flawless. Only way I'd spend the money for liquid cooled is if it were diesel powered and that brings a whole set of it's own problems. Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent. | |||
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| Three Generations of Service |
@nhracecraft: I've lived in Florida and South Carolina, and I suspect the idea of ensuring the HVAC runs is humidity control. Mold will appear pretty quickly in hot, humid spaces. Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent. | |||
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Drill Here, Drill Now |
I have had a Kohler whole house air cooled generator for a little over 5 years. At the time of purchase, the largest air cooled Kohler was 20 kW and air cooled Generac was 22 kW. I had to have load shedding (e.g. it'll automatically drop the electric dryer circuit first if too much power demand rather than the generator shutting down) to avoid doubling my cost for the smallest liquid cooled generator. The smallest liquid cooled generator would have also increased the annual maintenance contract by 20% since they would have to deal with the radiator. Since then, both Kohler and Generac have come out with larger air cooled generators. Kohler now has 26 kW, and Generac also has 26 kW. This larger size would've eliminated the more complex load shedding control and net cost would've been the same. It paid for itself during Winter Storm Uri where the electric grid in Texas nearly collapsed. We lost power for ~2.5 days and it was well below freezing the entire time. Neighbors with portable generators running extension cords still had pipes burst (i.e. nobody had a transfer switch to electric panel and their gas fireplace didn't heat whole house). Meanwhile, I was cozily maintaining my normal life other than more neighbors than normal dropping by. Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
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| Retired, laying back and enjoying life  |
Have a 22KW Generac that I installed myself in 2011 running off a propane system I also installed. Local codes have loop hole that allows home owner to do such work for own home. Had to have propane system inspected by certified inspector before local propane company would fill tank. Unit has been trouble free and has kept our all electric house running several times over the years I've had system. Think longest run has been around 36 hours with several runs in the 24 hour range. Air cooled is definitely the way to go. Freedom comes from the will of man. In America it is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment | |||
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Political Cynic |
Air cooled | |||
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Member |
Mine is liquid cooled, but that is only because mine is a DIY Kubota diesel set. I repurposed a 20KW set from a power station. Mine doesn't automatically switch over, so I have to go out and start it and throw the transfer switch. Having a liquid set hasn't been any extra problems. I don't have to do any real maintenance on it. It has the red EC-1 coolant that will basically last forever. The best thing about having a diesel set is that I am totally independent of any grid, including the gas grid. I keep about 250 gallons of diesel around, add some biocide and Howells to it, and it will keep for decades. If I'm careful, I figure I can keep power on for two months, if I run it four hours in the morning and four at night. Probably about three weeks around the clock. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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| If you see me running try to keep up  |
I got an air cooled last year, water cooked is double the price and not enough benefits for me. | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
I have a friend in the generator business, he says that liquid cooled are better in general. However, they are more beneficial with the larger units and/or when you want something quieter. Air cooled are usually a more cost effective solution on the cheaper units where it is harder to justify the cost increase for the better equipment. Usually a consideration starting at 20KW. | |||
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| Member |
Side question. In both Texas and Oklahoma we get power dropouts that last maybe 3 seconds, not sure why. I’m wondering how these glitches impact the generator. Is there a delay that will prevent the generator kicking on and off needlessly? | |||
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| Member |
Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like air is the way to go, particularly considering that dropouts have been relatively few and short plus air being less costly. My electrical panel and gas supply are within about 10 feet of each other on the same side of the house where there’s also room for a generator, so hopefully that’ll help keep costs from getting too crazy. | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
That's likely what's known as a recloser operation: https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us...ls-of-reclosers.html Regarding generator operation: The transfer switch controllers have a configurable delay prior to generator startup and switchover. Mine is set for 10 seconds before generator start, and another 5 seconds before switchover. It's also setup not to transfer back to line power until line power is restored to at least ~80% voltage for 15 seconds. It runs a 1 minute cool down cycle after power is restored. __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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| Member |
If you want to protect against this, you need a whole-house inverter with a battery backup, such as a Tesla Wall or Sol-Arc. My brother has a Sol-Arc coupled with solar and batteries. He can last about 24hrs on battery, with zero solar input and no A/C. When his power glitches, he cannot even tell. The inverter switches so quickly that the lights don't even flicker. He had to set the inverter up to send him a text when the power goes out so he would know. He hasn't done it yet, but he can add a generator that the inverter can activate when necessary when the batteries get below a specified charge. It will then charge up the batteries and shut back off. This is a much more expensive setup, of course, but he lives up in the mountains and the power has gotten incredibly unreliable. I grew up there, and we used to have outages every year. Now, he gets power outages every week, so it was probably worth it for him. The upside is that his house has power that is much less likely to damage his electronics, like fridge/furnace/range. I suppose there's products out there that would provide a small battery backup inverter that could carry the house while the generator came online, so your power would be completely uninterrupted. That might be less costly. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Member |
Air cooled spin at 3600 rpm and most liquid cooled spin at 1800 rpm. The liquid cooled are more reliable especially for running several weeks to months in 100 degree and high humidity conditions. Three things when buying a home generator 1 where is the nearest service company. We are $241 an hour and $4 a mile. So picking a company that is nearby can save money. 2 warranty get the longest warranty you can find. Extra warranty may run $1500 but when the control board goes bad your looking at $1000 to $2000 for the control board and $241 an hour and $4 a mile which can add up for to 3 grand or more which is very costly when the entire generator only costs about 5 to 6 grand. 3 make sure the installer shows you how to safely shut down and check the oil and safety restart the generator. Most failures in long runs happen from low oil level as motors spinning at 3600 rpm will use oil especially before they run long enough to seat the rings. They need to be stopped and the oil checked and topped off if needed every 3 days _____________________ "We're going to die. Some people are scared of dying. Never be afraid to die. Because you're born to die," Walter Breuning 114 years old | |||
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| Member |
I have a air cooled 22k Generac. The only problem I have is the power never goes out. | |||
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| Member |
So I will ask the $1000 question that I would think everyone needs to know (or at least I do). Let’s say I have a 10kw standby generator hooked up to a 250 gallon propane tank. Knowing that propane tanks can only be filled to 80%, let’s say my tank has 200 gallons of propane in it. How long would a 10kw generator running at 50% load run on 200 gallons of propane? I ask this because with propane costing about $2.50 a gallon, this would allow me to better understand the cost to run per day if the unit ran non-stop (summer) or 8-12 hrs a day if winter time. | |||
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