https://www.insurance.wa.gov/n...rance-sales-policies

OLYMPIA, Wash. – Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler has fined United States Concealed Carry Association, Inc., (USCCA) for violating Washington state laws by selling unauthorized insurance that illegally covers defense costs for criminal shootings.

“We made two things very clear to USCCA,” Kreidler said. “Insurers must be authorized to sell in our state, and policies can’t cover illegal activity. These law violations are fixable, if the company wishes to do business in Washington state.”

USCCA agreed to pay a $100,000 fine and $5,457 in unpaid premium taxes, penalties and interest and to continue not selling the insurance in Washington state. Fines assessed by Kreidler are deposited in the state's general fund to pay for state services.

USCCA sold insurance to 1,675 Washington state consumers from Dec. 1, 2018 through Jan. 30, 2019, collecting $241,000. USCCA has paid no claims in Washington state.

USCCA bundled the insurance product, called a protection plan, with membership in its association. The protection plan provides payments for criminal defense costs if a member is charged with a crime related to the intentional use of a firearm or other weapon. Washington state law doesn’t allow a person to buy insurance for their own intentional criminal activity.

Additionally, USCCA was illegally acting as an insurer. Insurance companies must be authorized to sell policies in Washington state, and their policies must be reviewed and approved by Kreidler’s office.

USCCA voluntarily stopped selling membership and the protection plan in Washington on Jan. 30, 2019.

The protection plan says it excludes coverage for “criminal acts” and only covers “acts of self-defense.” However, the policies had no mechanism to make sure that payments made to policyholders who were later convicted of a crime were repaid to the insurer.

USCCA could sell insurance legally in Washington by changing its policies to not insure criminal activity, and either becoming a registered insurer or by placing insurance business through surplus lines brokers.

In January 2019, Kreidler fined one insurer and one insurance agency $177,000 for selling 811 similar illegal liability policies in Washington state under the National Rifle Association’s Carry Guard program.

My largest fear with USCCA.

Self-defense is becoming illegal in many leftist jurisdictions. The communist f*cks will continue to make carrying, and self defense illegal...nullifying your USCCA membership, and making the cost of defense untouchable.

The "just don't commit a crime" crowd is delusional to what's happening in our country.

When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them …

If they weren't authorized to sell insurance, that's on them.

As far as the activities, they sell car insurance...and cover any result of a DWI....

So if I read this correctly, the state of Washington considers self defense a "criminal activity" and doesn't allow self defense insurance?

Which is the entire point of the insurance...

Love it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jester814:
So if I read this correctly, the state of Washington considers self defense a "criminal activity" and doesn't allow self defense insurance?

Which is the entire point of the insurance...

Love it.

It's because the policy has no mechanism to repay back defense cost if you are convicted of a bad shoot. That is, lawful self defense isn't a crime (good shoot), but the State isn't charging you with that--they are trying to charge you with some level of homicide (bad shoot).

If they paid for defense, and you are convicted of a crime, and you don't have to pay them back for the defense cost...then they've paid to defend your illegal conduct.

It's a pretty simple fix, policy wise. However, fixing it pretty much makes the policy worthless. If you are at risk for a felony and you are offered a plea down to a misdemeanor with no additional jail time, you would be advised to take the deal and run. But now you've plead guilty to criminal conduct and how to repay your defense cost. Seems shitty.

quote:

But now you've plead guilty to criminal conduct and how to repay your defense cost. Seems shitty.

Exactly

I was thinking the larger problem was USCCA continuing to take peoples money when they knew they weren't actually selling them anything as it wasn't legal to sell this insurance.

Doesn’t the state defend you if you can’t afford it? So, if the state pays for your defense, and you are found guilty and don’t have to pay them back…

quote:

Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler has fined United States Concealed Carry Association, Inc., (USCCA) for violating Washington state laws by selling unauthorized insurance that illegally covers defense costs for criminal shootings.

USCCA must have the dumbest lawyers on their payroll. Didn't see that coming? Riiight.

Most, maybe all states, have an insurance commissioners website that you can search to see if a company is a registered insurance company in that state.
Whenever this comes up and people are calling these “programs” self defense insurance, I point out that they are not actual insurance. Most of these are very careful to chose their words to let you think they are without stating what they really are. Most are polished marketing companies.
So once again, look up this one and any others you may be considering in your own state and feel free to report back here.
I would say Flash-Lb ^^^ nails it.

I have a prepaid legal program that I got for a pretty good price.

It covers attorneys fees, and some other ancillary costs such as bail and whatnot, but doesn't actually indemnify against loss--which, in my unlearned opinion, is what I would consider insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by nshumway:
Doesn’t the state defend you if you can’t afford it? So, if the state pays for your defense, and you are found guilty and don’t have to pay them back…

The state pays for your defense if you are indigent. It's part of the social contract wherein we all agree to abide by the outcome of a trial, provided that everyone gets a fair shake at it.

The concept behind not allowing insurance to cover criminal conduct is to prevent criminals from buying insurance policies which allow them to commit crimes against others with impunity.

It's not exactly fair. You can be balls deep in cash and spend it however you want, including paying for the best criminal defense and accompanying civil settlements, but you can't be poor and do the same thing with an insurance policy for the price of the premium.

It's a pretty moot point though, as most insurance policies of any sort typically excludes coverage for intentional or criminal conduct. It's good business to exclude those types of things, from the perspective of the insurance company at least.