quote:

I change mine when I put it away at the end of the season then again about half way through the season. And with full synthetic. You?

I really should change it twice, like you do, but usually just once a year.

quote:

Originally posted by Phelen_Kell:
I change the oil (tip it over) in my lawnmower at the end of the season before I store it.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I change mine when I put it away at the end of the season then again about half way through the season. And with full synthetic. You?

I really should change it twice, like you do, but usually just once a year.

Good to hear, more than most people I know. One guy I spoke with boasted "years ago I decided to change the oil in my old Sears with a B&S engine and less than a month later the damn engine seized so after that I never change oil in my lawn mowers any more."

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:
The oil and oil pan are the garbage can for your engine. Gasoline, burned and unburned is the trash, by and large. All things equal doubling your fuel economy doubles your oil life.

My F-150 holds 7.7 qts of oil and gets 20 mpg and has a 10,000 mile oil life monitor setting. I use Blackstone Labs to verify my oil is coming out soon enough. 10,000 miles leaves a nice cushion, about %20 by their estimation.

Works for me.

Oil analysis is the only way to know, people can argue using hypothetical situations all they want but analysis provides hard evidence when done right.

I agree on the lab. $35 dollars to collect facts, opinions are still free though. I run a sample about every other oil change, basically once a year.

Sample pulled at 75000 was the best yet at 10000 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
You wouldn’t think it’s “bs” if your engine fails under warranty and VW refuses to repair/replace the engine because you didn’t use a 502.00 spec oil. There are several oils in the US that meet that specification. I’m not saying I agree with VW but you’d better make sure you’re using an oil that meets that spec, or else.

It's always entertaining to watch virtually everyone adhere to the manufacturer's spec right up to the end of the warranty period, and then use a readily available and less expensive alternative for the remainder of the life of the vehicle. And to date, I've never seen a single engine fail because of the oil used in it, so long as the same weight is utilized, and I've wrenched on a lot of cars over time. Engines primarily fail due to neglect, not because someone used Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic as opposed to some other 'recommended' 5w30 brand. And when those brilliant engineers step out from behind their keyboards, grab a wrench and get their hands dirty working on what they've spec'd, I'll listen to their recommendations a bit closer. Until then, I'll listen to a couple master mechanic friends who work under a hood almost every day.

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:
I already know what the standard is and what it means, and how one acquires it.

Can you educate me on what the standard is and why its important? I am curious, but too lazy to Google it.

Never mind. Apparently the 502.00 requirement is spec'd around two things....1) High speed high duration stress on small turbo engines (think Autobahn bombing), and 2) Extended range oil change intervals (10k+ miles was mentioned in a couple places online). So I guess if you're driving takes advantage or either or both of those items, 502.00 it is.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bigdeal,

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
You wouldn’t think it’s “bs” if your engine fails under warranty and VW refuses to repair/replace the engine because you didn’t use a 502.00 spec oil. There are several oils in the US that meet that specification. I’m not saying I agree with VW but you’d better make sure you’re using an oil that meets that spec, or else.

It's always entertaining to watch virtually everyone adhere to the manufacturer's spec right up to the end of the warranty period, and then use a readily available and less expensive alternative for the remainder of the life of the vehicle. And to date, I've never seen a single engine fail because of the oil used in it, so long as the same weight is utilized, and I've wrenched on a lot of cars over time. Engines primarily fail due to neglect, not because someone used Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic as opposed to some other 'recommended' 5w30 brand. And when those brilliant engineers step out from behind their keyboards, grab a wrench and get their hands dirty working on what they've spec'd, I'll listen to their recommendations a bit closer. Until then, I'll listen to a couple master mechanic friends who work under a hood almost every day.

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:
I already know what the standard is and what it means, and how one acquires it.

Can you educate me on what the standard is and why its important? I am curious, but too lazy to Google it.

Oh boy.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Oh boy.

Thanks for the highly intellectual contribution.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Well speaking of changing oil your lawnmower engine is probably the hardest working engine you have, most don’t even have an oil filter plus they run in a cloud of dust. Many people never change oil in their mowers just add some when low, partly because some mower engines (you listening Honda) don’t even have a drain plug making you have to tip the whole mower over or suck out what you can.
I change mine when I put it away at the end of the season then again about half way through the season. And with full synthetic. You?

Yep, and lawnmower engines being air cooled run a lot hotter than the water cooled engines in our automobiles. I drain and replace the oil and oil filter on my zero turn at least once a year, usually in the spring, but have done it twice during the years it gets more use than normal. Its really cheap protection.

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:
Well it has to meet VW "502 00" spec.

And my first question to a high end technical support contact with VW would be "what's so special about "502 00 spec and why does it matter?" Much of this silly BS by manufacturers is just that, BS. Similarly, Honda 'requires' 0w20 synthetic in my wife's 2013 Honda Pilot. No other weight is acceptable. Yet the 2013 Honda Pilot sold in Australia and New Zealand (built on the same assembly line as our Pilot) is spec'd for 5w30. Same vehicle, same motor, built on the same assembly line, but different requirements for oil weight. Total BS. Can you say CAFE requirements. When I made the technical adviser at the local dealership aware of this reality, he had no answer for me (he also didn't know about the different weight requirements).

Well when you get the answer to your question from VW - and if you can prove that it's just a made up story and that I should ignore the sticker in my engine bay that says I better use VW 50200 oil or else - I'll bite the bullet and head to Walmart.

So you have no interest in knowing what that standard is and why its so important that VW would all but 'mandate' a specific oil for your car? A friend of mine's 2016 Porsche Carrera 3 (an insanely high performance motor), runs off the shelf Mobil 1 full synthetic, so I'm particularly intrigued why VW would spec something beyond that standard for a daily driver.

I already know what the standard is and what it means, and how one acquires it. Most of the German cars have similar requirements for their oil. I know my engine isn't going to die if I put a proper weight synthetic that doesn't meet the spec. But this Lubro Moly Leichtlauf 5w40 can go 9K or more and I never burn oil. It's not terribly expensive, and I don't have to step foot into a Walmart. I'll stick with it for the time being.

True, on my C300, it doesn't have as strict of a requirement, but the C400/C450/C43 & C63 do require a specific standard of oil.

I bought the dealership oil/filter change for life package when we bought our F150 and Escape. It was $500, Motorcraft oil out the barrels and Motorcraft filters. It allows an oil change every 3K miles/3 months. The 150 gets it at 3 months within a couple hundred miles of 3K - I am past the pay back period. The Escape is around 4 months to get to 3K. So that is what they will both get for as long as we own them (long time is the plan.) I do my Mustang, 8 1/2 qts of Redline 5W-50 and a Motorcraft filter, going into winter storage and coming out, gets maybe 1K miles a year.

My 2017 Honda Accord Sport is my first modern rig.
The newest rig I had is my 1991 Land Cruiser.

I went through the whole when do you change the oil routine. I'm usually around 7K miles at 10%.
Scanning the Honda forums I found tons of reading on the subject.
Long story short, even at 0% as per the maintenance monitor the oil had plenty of life left to it when people sent out a sample to be tested.
My shop does oil samples and I verified it myself as I just couldn't see it.
But it's true and I just dump the oil when it hits 10%.
According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change. Filters are cheap and I spin a new one on anyway.

My Land Cruiser just gets a filter spun on once in a while, it gets fresh oil added often enough that it never gets dirty.
One of these days I'll plug up the leaks... One of these days.

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change. Filters are cheap and I spin a new one on anyway.

Smart man. IMO its foolish to change the oil and 'not' change a $7 oil filter. But I'm sure some brilliant engineer somewhere in the Honda hierarchy has done the statistical modeling and determined the filter can go over 10k miles. Of course that engineer has likely never performed any maintenance or repairs whatsoever to any vehicle he/she has ever owned, sooooooooo.....

I've played with filters long enough to know what happens when they are left on for extended periods of time that I won't introduce that headache on myself.

I just worked on a rig with low power and low oil pressure complaints.
After a bit I found it had gone 73,000 miles since it's last service. Normal interval is about 12,000 miles depending on their MPG.
This is on a Volvo 13 liter engine.

It took hrs to get the filters off.
I foresee that one coming back on the hook in the near future.

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change. Filters are cheap and I spin a new one on anyway.

That's like taking a shower then putting the same dirty, smelly underwear back on...

quote:

According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change.

I know some people do that, as well as never actually changing the oil, just the filter and adding oil to make up the loss, but I didn't know a car manufacturer did that.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change.

I know some people do that, as well as never actually changing the oil, just the filter and adding oil to make up the loss, but I didn't know a car manufacturer did that.

I think that was commonly recommended in owner's manuals back in the 1960s, possibly later. Filters were so cheap back then that most people / professional mechanics just went ahead and replaced the filter with every oil change.

I don't think I ever changed the oil only, but it's been so long I can't say I never did.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

According to Honda the oil filter is to be changed every other change.

I know some people do that, as well as never actually changing the oil, just the filter and adding oil to make up the loss, but I didn't know a car manufacturer did that.

Run new clean oil through a used dirty filter...oh yeah that makes sense...NOT!

It's always interesting to read forum threads on oil changes on forums other than bobistheoilguy. Intelligent people with so many misconceptions. bobistheoilguy is pretty mature in thought these days, with pretty settled oil change approach. I'll state some points as I've learned there that disagree with some points in this post. Mostly regarding underutilization of oil and filters.

Time on an oil change isn't worried about much. Lots if oil analysis results don't show degradation requiring changing. Particularly with stored and hobby cars.

Filters get more efficient as the miles increase. So does oil. There is a spike in wear right after a change. It takes a while for the additives to work best. Yes there is greater chance of a filter going into bypass when cold as the miles accrue, but modern well maintained engines don't she lots of filter clogging materials. Some in this thread have talked about replacing the filter half way to an oil change interval. I think this suggests an overestimation of how clean filters can filter, and an overestimation of the filth an engine sheds.

The fear of thinner viscosity oils is pretty much long gone on bobistheoilguy forums. 5W20, 0W20, and 0W16 in most cases can handle heat and load, except in rare circumstances.

Modern conventional oils are quite good, and probably as close in performance to synthetic oils as ever. It is thought that some of today's conventional oils sometimes contain group III base stocks. Partly due to meeting the specifications of that finished product, and maybe because they have gotten efficient at and have the production facilities to create inexpensive synthetic base stock. Modern oil specifications are pretty tight and pretty much ensure a good performing product, even if it uses conventional base stocks.

Direct injection engines are prone to deposits and there are some oils and maintenance intervals may mitigate the problem.

Don't scrimp on the specifications of European cars and don't follow the long drain intervals.

quote:

Run new clean oil through a used dirty filter...oh yeah that makes sense...NOT!

As well as leaving in whatever old oil that was still in the filter.

This info is old, but I have worked in repair shops that serviced Enterprise rental cars. Enterprise also only changed filters at every other change. (And were very slow about paying their bill, but that's another story.) I'm leery of buying or recommending an Enterprise ex-rental.

On a new vehicle, changing the filter every other is perfectly fine. The oil filter capacity to hold grit/dirt is WAY more than required. Way. On a new car, with a clean engine, a high quality oil filter can last 30K, 40K miles, assuming the oil is drained/filled on schedule and kept clean.

The oil filter is in bypass mode for a large portion of its life, perhaps as much as 10-20% or more. When the oil is cold, its bypassing the filter media through the bypass. It takes at least 30 minutes for the oil to come up to temp, so a lot of people that are short trippers have oil that is constantly bypassing the filter media.

I bought my first Honda in 2004. The manual said to change the oil filter every other oil change. Oil at 10,000 miles, oil filter at 20,000 miles. I thought, well that's weird, but I will give it a try. Here we are about 15 years later, and I have religiously changed the filter every other oil change on every car I own. I don't use bottom of the barrel filters though, I use Fram Ultra filters which are some of the best filters you can buy. Here we are 750,000 miles later in 15 years (did the math), and my engines are perfect inside. No smoke, no extra wear, no issues. Oil filters actually filter better the longer you use them (up to a point), so my twice used filter is working better than a brand new filter off the shelf.

As to the "argument" that you are leaving old oil in the engine, the engine has 6-12 ounces of oil in it that can not be changed anyways, that stays in the top end or oil galleys. The oil filter adds perhaps another 2-3 ounces to that number. Not a big deal. The difference in not changing the oil filter is this; as an example, if you change your oil filter, your new oil will have a total base number (TBN) of 8.5. Without changing the filter, your TBN will be 8.49. I can guarantee with scientific certainty, that your engine is not going to notice the .01 difference in TBN. Its not a big deal. Its not even a small deal. In fact, its not a deal at all.

People that make a big deal about not changing your oil filter every time, just dont understand the mechanics of whats actually occurring here.