This seems straightforward enough. Jackass was even told by the ATF to knock it off, and kept at it. My question is about the honorable discharge. I haven't been able to determine if he was discharged unrelated to this. I don't think it's a typo. Is this not grounds for at least an OTH?


https://www.military.com/daily...and-resell-them.html


Pino, who was honorably discharged from the Navy in December, was sentenced Monday to 2 1/2 years in prison.

"The defendant bought and re-sold firearms so many times that, unsurprisingly, he sold some firearms to prohibited people, including a juvenile, a drug-addicted armed robber, a drug dealer trafficking in stolen firearms and many others," Assistant U.S. Attorney William B. Jackson said in court documents.

According to court documents, Pino's scheme stretched from Nov. 6, 2015 through January 21, 2017. Prosecutors said he illegally engaged in the business of dealing firearms without being a licensed dealer.

In all, Pino, now 26, purchased at least 60 firearms during that time before advertising them on www.VAguntrader.com and www.armslist.com.

Court documents outline one particular sale of a .40-caliber Glock Model 23, which he purchased March 12, 2016, from the Marine Corps Exchange in Norfolk. The original sale price was $439.99.

In the process, he signed a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives form in which he said he was the actual buyer and transferee of the weapon even though he had no plans to keep it, documents said.

Less than three hours after the purchase, a potential buyer responded to an advertisement for the weapon. Later that day, he sold it to the person for $550, documents said.

Assistant Federal Public Defender Keith Kimball said his client tried to be careful about who he sold the firearms to, but obviously failed.

"Mr. Pino has no criminal history and did not seek to put guns in the hands of people who would use them to commit crimes," he said, lamenting how his client now realizes he exercised "extremely poor judgment."

Regarding a Dec. 16, 2015 gun sale in Maryland that involved a 16-year-old boy, Kimball said his client didn't know the buyer's age at the time.

Jackson countered that ATF agents told Pino not to buy firearms to immediately resell them and that he didn't listen.

"Despite repeated warnings by ATF agents, he continued to sell guns without a license, even after telling them that he would stop," Jackson said as he argued for a sentence of more than three years in prison.

Kimball asked the court to sentence his client to probation. He said Pino, who is married with an 18-month-old son, enlisted in December 2012 and was most recently stationed on the aircraft carrier George H.W. Bush.

"Mr. Pino had planned to make the Navy a career, but the instant offense ended his plan," Kimball said.

Sounds straightforward to me. One more idiot who's trying to ruin it for the rest of us law-abiding folks to turn a buck without jumping through the hoops.

Straw sale, charge his ass.

I'm SURE he didn't know he was doing anything wrong. He just figured he was the only one smart enough to take advantage of the niche market of honest people willing to pay $120 over retail just so they don't have to go to some busy store.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Straw sale, charge his ass.

How is buying a firearm and selling it at a layer point in time to a previously unknown buyer a straw purchase? Answer: it isn't. It isn't what he was accused of or convicted for either. His transactions were individually legal. He just had so many of them, the ATF said he was a dealer without a license.

I think the "honorable" discharge is an error in reporting.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I think the "honorable" discharge is an error in reporting.

That makes the most sense for sure but I saw it on a couple different sites. Probably just copied the original.

Per the ATF


As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and
sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast,
if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal
collection, you do not need to be licensed.

quote:

"Despite repeated warnings by ATF agents, he continued to sell guns without a license, even after telling them that he would stop," Jackson said as he argued for a sentence of more than three years in prison.

what a fool

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I think the "honorable" discharge is an error in reporting.

That makes the most sense for sure but I saw it on a couple different sites. Probably just copied the original.

I could be wrong (probably am, as I'm not a JAG) but I doubt there are any charges in the UCMJ that cover what he was doing "civilian side". Rape, murder, robbery, etc....that's in the UCMJ, therefore it'd impact your type of discharge. I imagine he just got a bar to reenlist.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Straw sale, charge his ass.

How is buying a firearm and selling it at a layer point in time to a previously unknown buyer a straw purchase? Answer: it isn't. It isn't what he was accused of or convicted for either. His transactions were individually legal. He just had so many of them, the ATF said he was a dealer without a license.

"Less than three hours after the purchase, a potential buyer responded to an advertisement for the weapon. Later that day, he sold it to the person"

How long after the original sale was it posted, if he was getting responses after 3 hrs, its almost assured he posted it immediately. This isn't a case of I didn't like so I sold it. This is a case of a guy try to make extra bucks selling guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Sounds straightforward to me. One more idiot who's trying to ruin it for the rest of us law-abiding folks to turn a buck without jumping through the hoops.

F*ck him and the horse he rode in on. He needs more than a few years behind bars. Guys like him are the poster boys for the UBC movement.

I've seen guys like him on gun trading sites. I've seen guys so brazen that they'll buy a great deal on the trading site then turn around and relist it on the same site later the same day.
I've seen guys so brazen they use the same ad photos from the prior owner's ad when they flip their purchase.

BATF needs to crack down more on guys who want to deal like an FFL w/o having an FFL.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
I could be wrong (probably am, as I'm not a JAG) but I doubt there are any charges in the UCMJ that cover what he was doing "civilian side". Rape, murder, robbery, etc....that's in the UCMJ, therefore it'd impact your type of discharge. I imagine he just got a bar to reenlist.

Likely the case, or one where the Navy is too lazy to take him to mast / court martial since he's "already been punished".

Seen it go both ways when I was in.

I really don’t understand. I don’t remember the details, but I dimly remember some cop buying a blue label glock, then selling to his uncle (maybe transferring to uncle through an FFL, details fuzzy in my head) and he got hammered. Went pretty high up the legal chain if I remember correctly. And this idiot does several straw sales and ATF tells him to knock it off? WTAF?!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
I could be wrong (probably am, as I'm not a JAG) but I doubt there are any charges in the UCMJ that cover what he was doing "civilian side". Rape, murder, robbery, etc....that's in the UCMJ, therefore it'd impact your type of discharge. I imagine he just got a bar to reenlist.

Likely the case, or one where the Navy is too lazy to take him to mast / court martial since he's "already been punished".

Seen it go both ways when I was in.

I was trying to put this scenario into words for my gf, and basically as I understand the military rules are kinda round peg goes in round hole and square peg in square hole and whatever they call what this guy did somehow fell under honorable discharge? I've run into some weird stuff like that in the past and was curious if that was the case here. Would like to know the details if that's the case.

^^when I was in, I saw people who tested hot for cocaine discharged just to get rid of them. And many were honorable but were barred from re enlisting .

Most likely what happened here

Perp probably doesn't have the money for a good enough lawyer, but I think some lawyer could make the case that ATF's regs on who needs an FFL are overly broad and subjective. There is no firm number of transactions you need to make in order to be considered a dealer without a license. And their regs mention the word "repetitively," while the sale in question here is just one sale. What if the perp bought a lot of guns, held onto them for six months and then sold them in several transactions at a loss? There's no profit motive there, but....

I have a local friend who got a visit from ATF recently because he had bought a lot of AR lowers from the same home-based FFL. ATF noticed my friend's name many times during a bound book audit. Yeah, friend has built up and sold some of the ARs, but, again, there is no number in the ATF regs as to when someone becomes a dealer vs. rotating their personal collection.

I buy and sell a few times a year, almost always sell at a profit, but it's not my main motive.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I really don’t understand. I don’t remember the details, but I dimly remember some cop buying a blue label glock, then selling to his uncle (maybe transferring to uncle through an FFL, details fuzzy in my head) and he got hammered. Went pretty high up the legal chain if I remember correctly. And this idiot does several straw sales and ATF tells him to knock it off? WTAF?!

I remember that case. It went to the SC. The uncle was a dummy. Problem was the uncle wrote a check to his nephew specifically for the gun and dated it before the Blue Label purchase was made. They left a paper trail that was hard to argue out of. They violated the letter of the law but not the spirit and intent of the law. Glock could also argue that he was abusing the Blue Label program.

Abramski v. United States

quote:

In all, Pino, now 26, purchased at least 60 firearms during that time before advertising them on www.VAguntrader.com and www.armslist.com.

Court documents outline one particular sale of a .40-caliber Glock Model 23, which he purchased March 12, 2016, from the Marine Corps Exchange in Norfolk. The original sale price was $439.99.

In the process, he signed a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives form in which he said he was the actual buyer and transferee of the weapon even though he had no plans to keep it, documents said.

Less than three hours after the purchase, a potential buyer responded to an advertisement for the weapon. Later that day, he sold it to the person for $550, documents said.

Assistant Federal Public Defender Keith Kimball said his client tried to be careful about who he sold the firearms to, but obviously failed.

"Mr. Pino has no criminal history and did not seek to put guns in the hands of people who would use them to commit crimes," he said, lamenting how his client now realizes he exercised "extremely poor judgment."

Regarding a Dec. 16, 2015 gun sale in Maryland that involved a 16-year-old boy, Kimball said his client didn't know the buyer's age at the time.

Jackson countered that ATF agents told Pino not to buy firearms to immediately resell them and that he didn't listen.

"Despite repeated warnings by ATF agents, he continued to sell guns without a license, even after telling them that he would stop," Jackson said as he argued for a sentence of more than three years in prison.

Kimball asked the court to sentence his client to probation. He said Pino, who is married with an 18-month-old son, enlisted in December 2012 and was most recently stationed on the aircraft carrier George H.W. Bush.

"Mr. Pino had planned to make the Navy a career, but the instant offense ended his plan," Kimball said.

This reminds me of dale deveny and his partners back in 2009/10. They fed off the gunsales on seattleguns.net. Selling them to whom ever paid. One man who shot 3 police in a starbucks got his gun through dale, as did the guy who shot another cop in october of that year.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I really don’t understand. I don’t remember the details, but I dimly remember some cop buying a blue label glock, then selling to his uncle (maybe transferring to uncle through an FFL, details fuzzy in my head) and he got hammered. Went pretty high up the legal chain if I remember correctly. And this idiot does several straw sales and ATF tells him to knock it off? WTAF?!

I remember that case. It went to the SC. The uncle was a dummy. Problem was the uncle wrote a check to his nephew specifically for the gun and dated it before the Blue Label purchase was made. They left a paper trail that was hard to argue out of. They violated the letter of the law but not the spirit and intent of the law. Glock could also argue that he was abusing the Blue Label program.

Abramski v. United States

Thanks for the details. Not arguing the uncle and nephew weren’t stupid or that they shouldn’t have been prosecuted. Just seems like if he can get hammered for that this rocket surgeon should have been hammered in the first place, not told to knock it off.