Make them harder to steal, they will just move to the next low hanging fruit. Better if it was legal to shoot thieves. Cures a lot of problems. And if it was cheaper to build them with something else you better believe the manufactures would do it. Better bottom line. And the 100 MPG carb is bull too. Manufactures spend huge money to squeeze every mile out of every gallon. MPG #'s sell and now helps them with MPG average, letting them sell more profit making SUV's.

Then there was the methhead who got brought in for a lac to his hand obtained while attempting to steal catalytic converters from vehicles in the hospital employee parking lot next to the ER...

quote:

Originally posted by Garret Blaine:

quote:

Originally posted by remsig:

quote:

Originally posted by Garret Blaine:
No doubt there are scumbag thieves that steal cats and they ought to have their hands cut off for it. But the assumptions that anyone who sells “bulk” cats or cats cut off with a sawzall is a thief are laughable. I bought junk and converted to scrap for many years as a side job, hundreds of cars included. Guess how I removed every one of my legally obtained cats... yup a sawzall. Also I didn’t sell my cats to the same yard that bought all the rest of my metal because they didn’t pay enough. I would save them up and make a trip to the city a couple times per year, usually with literally a truck bed full of cats. During these years I got to know many other guys who were doing the same thing. Were the yards buying some stolen cats, probably but I would bet the majority of them were legal.

LOL "the majority of them were legal." LOL

Catalytic converter theft

If your going to quote me, quote the entire sentence. I clearly said “I would bet the majority of them were legal”. And that opinion, obvious by the words I would bet, comes from someone who has many years of experience and knows many more with 10 plus years of the same.

I quoted your full response this time, happy?

You're telling me you would bet the majority of people with a truck bed full of catalytic converters are selling them legally? Ha.

I let a friend of mine park his class A Motorhome at my shop until he got into his new house, he told me to go ahead and take it for a weekend to try it before the wife and I bought our own, I took him up on his offer. I went to start it up and the catalytic was gone! Some scum bag stole it. That was two months ago! We bought a 2021 Sunseeker class C three weeks ago and took it out for a short trip today with the wife and we stopped at Bob Evans for breakfast, we were in there for 45 minutes, came out to leave and the son of bitches got my converter! Broad daylight and lots of traffic. Needless to say I was pissed! Cop said I was the third one this morning! Probably a good thing I didn’t catch them in the act!

We've been talking about this problem here on the forum for years now. Seems to me the only real solution is for the states to enact laws restricting those who are buying these "hot" cats.

Does anyone know what these things are worth at the scrap yard? I’m just curious; not writing a business plan.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
Does anyone know what these things are worth at the scrap yard? I’m just curious; not writing a business plan.

I had the same question. Here is the answer.


Article from road and track: https://www.roadandtrack.com/c...len-precious-metals/


Here's How Much Precious Metal Thieves Can Take From Your Catalytic Converter
And here's how much prices have spiked for all of that palladium, rhodium, and platinum.

By Bozi Tatarevic Jun 23, 2022

Catalytic converter thefts have been on the rise over the last few years and show no signs of slowing down, as the prices of the precious metals that they contain continue to skyrocket. According to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, catalytic converter thefts saw an incredible 325 percent increase from 2019 to 2020. Much of it can be related to the state of global supply chains and the prices of the previous metals that allow a catalytic converter to function.

Catalytic converters are muffler-shaped devices that are part of the exhaust system that remove harmful pollutants from engine emissions. The inside of a catalytic converter contains a honeycomb structure that is coated with precious metals and those precious metals act as a catalyst in order to break down those harmful pollutants and convert them into less harmful emissions. (Here's a video showing how it all works.) Engines put out harmful gasses such as hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and nitrogen oxide and the catalyst process inside of a catalytic converter converts these to less harmful substances such as water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen.

Modern catalytic converters typically have two stages with the first stage being a reduction catalyst, which is there to eliminate nitrogen oxide, and the second stage being an oxidation catalyst, which eliminates carbon monoxide and unburned hydrocarbons. These stages are typically supported by cerium and ceramic honeycomb catalyst structures and coated with those pricey precious metals that thieves are after.

The three precious metals that are most commonly contained inside of a catalytic converter are platinum, rhodium, and palladium. All three have seen spikes in prices as the pandemic surged and as global supply chains slowed. According to kitco.com, the spot price of Rhodium went from $2,300 per ounce in January of 2019 to over $14,000 per ounce by December of 2020, so it’s not surprising that the NICB recorded thefts in the triple digits. The price increases of Rhodium didn’t stop in 2020 as it peaked at a price of $27,000 per ounce in April of 2021 and still remains well above those 2019 levels with a current price over $11,000 per ounce.

Platinum and palladium increases weren’t as drastic, but spot prices are still up over 2019 prices and the price of palladium roughly doubled from the beginning of 2019 to the end of 2020. While they have settled down to some extent, palladium is still up over 30 percent today compared to where it was at the beginning of 2019. The COVID-19 pandemic has an impact on the supply of these precious metals and the economic situation caused metals prices to increase in general, resulting in price spikes and increased values for secondhand catalytic converters that could be torn apart to extract these precious metals.

According to Waste Advantage Magazine, the average catalytic converter contains from three to seven grams of platinum, from two to seven grams of palladium, and from one to two grams of rhodium. Current prices in June of 2022 put platinum at around $30 per gram, palladium at around $60 per gram, and rhodium at around $440 per gram. Taking those prices into account allows us to see that the average catalytic converter can contain anywhere from $90 to $210 worth of platinum, from $120 to $420 worth of palladium, and from $440 to $880 worth of rhodium. This leaves the average catalytic converter with an average precious metals value from anywhere in the low hundreds all the way up to over $1,500 depending on the model.

While a catalytic converter could have precious metals that are valued into the four figures, those prices are not what a thief typically sees. They often sell to a recycler who then turns around and sells them to a facility that can extract the metals. A thief is likely to see less than half of that, but the job is still valuable considering that they can get over $500 for certain models with just a few minutes of work. The contents and quantities of precious metals in certain catalytic converters are well known, which often translates to certain models being targeted at a higher rate.

We often hear of the mid-2000s Toyota Prius being targeted in these thefts and that’s not by accident. They contain one of the most precious metal packed catalytic converters which is known as the GD3 model. Ecotrade Group currently shows that model as a bestseller and shows a market price of over $600 for it at this time. Units with similar quantities of these precious metals can be found in other vehicles of the era such as the Chevy Trailblazer, which employs a catalytic converter that can fetch over $400 according to the same recycling group. Taller vehicles such as the Trailblazer are often more susceptible for this type of theft simply from a standpoint of convenience; a thief doesn’t have to jack them up and can just slide underneath with a battery-powered saw to cut off the exposed catalytic converter. Not all catalytic converters are built the same, though, as we see prices well below $100 for other Chevrolet and Toyota catalytic converters from the same era, which likely translates to the known quantities of precious metals for those specific model numbers.

States are trying to curb these thefts by enacting legislation to make punishments harsher on those that are found with stolen catalytic converters along with laws on how they can be sold but it’s an uphill battle that’s closely tied to those precious metal prices and as long as they stay high, many are likely to take the risk of trying to acquire these valuable catalytic converters.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:
We've been talking about this problem here on the forum for years now. Seems to me the only real solution is for the states to enact laws restricting those who are buying these "hot" cats.

As much as I hate the idea of not punishing the real criminals, this is the only approach that could put a dent in it.
There may be strict laws in my state, not sure. I now when Ive dropped off a quantity of metal items when clearing out an old building I have, they seemed to give a lot of the people trying to sell cat's and old batteries the third degree.

I’m not usually in favor of injecting government into private transactions, but I think I’d be okay with restricting purchases until cops are called to question the seller- “where did you get this/these?”

We have something similar with pawn shops, where they can’t sell items until they are checked against stolen goods lists. I believe the local cops have a “pawn shop detail” that handles this.

if you eliminate the criminal, then the problem goes away and the pawn shops/junk yards lose a revenue stream

simpler to get rid of criminals than invent a bunch of new laws and oversight requirements for a problem created by a very small minority

You will never get rid of the criminal, just like you will never get rid of drug users.

Can't sell them used in NY.
So I had two I'd removed and replaced on my own cars, that I couldn't do anything with. Doesn't stop the crime though.

And that's how laws work.

When I worked in downtown Tacoma this past spring, there was a guy I worked with who ran out front and yelled at a guy who was in the act of cutting his catalytic converter off in broad daylight. He said the guy just calmly got up, hopped in the bed of the getaway pickup with no plates, and they cruised off, completely unworried. They don’t do anything about these guys in Washington state. Shitbag paradise.

Goodnight sucker...

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
Goodnight sucker...

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pn8iMw3Hesw" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

I wonder if that deputy made it through in a single take without smirking. He looks like he could barely hold it together for that interview.

Decriminalize defense of property using any level of force deemed sufficient by the property owner.

No reason to involve the state, just get the state out of the way and allow property rights to be defended.

quote:

Originally posted by tanner:

quote:

Can the catalytic converter be rethunk

It has been. In the way back of the 1980’s, I had an Astronomy course at a Detroit area community college and the adjunct professor was a former engineer with a very prominent auto manufacturer, *cough* *cough* “Generous Motors” *hack* *cough* *flem*.

Said engineer was an MIT PhD engineering graduate. He spent many years developing technology in GM’s R&D along with others who were recruited as the best and brightest from top universities. These guys and girls were given anything and everything in the way of laboratories, facilities and resources to chase their scientific ideas and dreams. Anyways, one of the technologies he developed was a very simple and affordable replacement to the current platinum catalytic converter. He was very excited about his discoveries.

GM shelved the technology because it would not make them money in the present environment. He said there are thousands of such technologies developed, patented and ready to be deployed that are not financially advantageous to the corporate entities that they were developed within. GM waits until these technologies can be sold outright or implemented to gain maximum market or financial advantage. Stay tuned.

The engineer eventually quit GM to pursue “other opportunities”.

I am not questioning you, but haven't we heard about dozens of products/materials/methods that the mysterious "they" at some big corporation have suppressed for nefarious financial reasons?

"Our magnetic fuel filters will save you gas and wear on your engine, and THEY know it and have tried to prevent the Magnafilter from coming to market, but today, for the low, low price . . ."

Great video Radioman. I have no pity for these idiots.

quote:

Our magnetic fuel filters will save you gas …

If you've got metal shavings in your fuel line (the only thing that could be in gas that could attract a magnet), you've got way more serious problems.

That brought back memories of reading old J.C. Whitney catalogs and all these "fuel savers" and their outlandish claims. "The Electronic Supercharger! Bombards the cylinders with 14,000,000 volts of ionized radiant energy!" It was a distributor rotor.

Watch past 1:45. It's worth it.