If you have installed a sewer main line back flow valve, which model is the most reliable and simplest to maintain?

we have used several different types in commercial applications. only required by code if adjacent manhole is above finish floor of building.

two types:
near surface where access by rectangular valve box can access valve assembly <24" below grade

deep line where a extension will provide removal of flapper assembly can be removed along with cleanout type cap. >24"

I can look up manufacture if needed.

residential backwater valves fall under a code I am not familiar with

later
JOhn

quote:

Originally posted by eltonr:
we have used several different types in commercial applications.
deep line where a extension will provide removal of flapper assembly can be removed along with cleanout type cap. >24"

I can look up manufacture if needed.

In this application, my Dad needs to replace a sewer main to his home that was built in 2006. A video inspection showed sags in the line, likely due to poor prep work at the time of the original installation. The sewer main exits the house about 11' down from the surface. My guess is it would be a lot to install a back flow valve outside that far down and be able to maintain it going forward, short of putting some sort of concrete box with a manhole in the front yard.

I want to learn more about the pros and cons of back flow valves so I can tell him before he has the job done, in case it makes sense.

Can the backflow preventer be put in the house?

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Can the backflow preventer be put in the house?

Yes, and that is another option--possibly the only way it could be done. It would require breaking up concrete, and there would be easier access later for maintenance.

Another, more important question is how to be certain the plumber does the prep work under the replacement sewer pipe correctly, so nothing settles again. I am told settling of concrete can be complicated with heavy clay soil, even if the soil is compacted. I suspect things are similar with sewer pipes.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Can the backflow preventer be put in the house?

Over a 12 year period when I worked for a water/sewer utility, I had to go to a customers house it seemed every other month because of odors. On the customer side of the curb it is their issue but we try to help out the customer if we can. Finally, my boss agreed to call out a plumber and get to problem.
The backflow preventer was installed in the woman's basement, pitched wrong with the flapper in the wrong direction, and the sump it went into was not sealed properly, had missing bolts for the lid. The plumber told her it would cost $1500 to correct the problem. I never heard a complaint from her again.
Bottom line is if you do install it in the house make sure you have a competent plumber do the work. When you seek the help of a plumber, tell them you know the lateral is dipped and not flowing right. Sewer main may confuse them. I'm not at all trying to bust your chops on your choice of words, just trying to make it more clear to the plumber. I'd guess most of homeowners would call it a sewer main (myself included before I worked that job). Good luck.

timely thread

I was just talking to a Doctor , here in tiny town, he's trying to sell his home.

He said that 9 years ago he was the first on his block to install one in hi front yard ,
He had no problems , but a salesman talked him in too it.


the very next spring, one neighbor had back flow problems , then another , then another.

they tried to pin their problems on his installing one, some how

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:

When you seek the help of a plumber, tell them you know the lateral is dipped and not flowing right. Sewer main may confuse them. I'm not at all trying to bust your chops on your choice of words, just trying to make it more clear to the plumber. I'd guess most of homeowners would call it a sewer main (myself included before I worked that job). Good luck.

Thank you for the correction on terminology. This is actually a big help, as I have told my father he needs to get some more estimates.

My concern is not the price, but to be certain the job will be done correctly. The plumber who gave the estimate was recommended by a another plumber I have dealt with for years.

The lateral runs underneath an established lawn, but fortunately it will only impact one sprinkler zone. The water line for the house runs in the same trench as the sewer line.

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:

When you seek the help of a plumber, tell them you know the lateral is dipped and not flowing right. Sewer main may confuse them. I'm not at all trying to bust your chops on your choice of words, just trying to make it more clear to the plumber. I'd guess most of homeowners would call it a sewer main (myself included before I worked that job). Good luck.

Thank you for the correction on terminology. This is actually a big help, as I have told my father he needs to get some more estimates.

My concern is not the price, but to be certain the job will be done correctly. The plumber who gave the estimate was recommended by a another plumber I have dealt with for years.

The lateral runs underneath an established lawn, but fortunately it will only impact one sprinkler zone. The water line for the house runs in the same trench as the sewer line.

11' is one deep lateral. I would recommend your father contact his sewer authority and ask for a recommendation. We had 5 companies that we would tell the customers were trustworthy, but we could only recommend and not say which to use. Our customer service ladies knew which of the 5 companies did the better job and charged a reasonable price. So when they gave out the companies names and phone numbers, 2 names were given out first.
The water and sewer line in the same trench worries me. There needs to be a separation between the two both vertical and horizontal. This way, if the sewer breaks there is less chance it will get into the water service. Water top, sewer lower, separated by IIRC no less than 5' (could be 10') not currently up on regs. In some instances that may not be possible so a waiver is granted. Plumbing permit and inspection required in doing that work even though it is a repair.

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:
11' is one deep lateral. I would recommend your father contact his sewer authority and ask for a recommendation. We had 5 companies that we would tell the customers were trustworthy, but we could only recommend and not say which to use. Our customer service ladies knew which of the 5 companies did the better job and charged a reasonable price. So when they gave out the companies names and phone numbers, 2 names were given out first.
The water and sewer line in the same trench worries me. There needs to be a separation between the two both vertical and horizontal. This way, if the sewer breaks there is less chance it will get into the water service. Water top, sewer lower, separated by IIRC no less than 5' (could be 10') not currently up on regs. In some instances that may not be possible so a waiver is granted. Plumbing permit and inspection required in doing that work even though it is a repair.

Thank you for the suggestions on contacting the sewer authority. The lateral is deep. The basement has a 9' ceiling, IIRC, and I was told the lateral line comes in about 18" give or take below the foundation.

The plumber who did the video had to use a large sensor to get the signal right. He said the depth at the entrance to the sewer main in the street is 18' down. Fortunately nothing is wrong in the street, because that point is 74' from the clean out.

For sure this is going to be done with the proper City inspections and permits.

I've been thinking about having a back flow valve installed. A couple years ago, we had very heavy rain in a short time. Somehow the storm drain got mixed with the sewer drains and about 90 homes in a city of around 4000 people had their basements flooded with sewage. Local code doesn't require back flow valves.

Hmmm...

I'm on septic with pump to get the effluent from the tank up hill to the drain field.

What do you smart guys think, is a backflow preventer recommended?

I went over and met a plumber who gave an estimate today, and explained a few things about back water valves. Evidently local code requires them on new construction now.

With a back water valve, if you clean out your lateral line from inside the house, you have to make sure no one runs a snake through it without taking it apart first. If a snake gets caught in it, the lateral line may have to be dug up to get the snake out.

In the event the back water valve engages, the pressure of the sewage can blow the cap off the top of the clean out outside, flooding your yard. Personally I'd prefer that to sewage in the basement.

Regular cleanings need to be done to the back water valve, because excess toilet paper and other products can make the valve stick open.

YMMV, this was what I was told.

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
Regular cleanings need to be done to the back water valve, because excess toilet paper and other products can make the valve stick open.

That sounds like a fun job.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
Regular cleanings need to be done to the back water valve, because excess toilet paper and other products can make the valve stick open.

That sounds like a fun job.

The last plumber I spoke with today said he doesn't like back water valves. He said debris can cause two things to go wrong: a) the valve sticks open, and the valve does not prevent back flow or b) the valve sticks closed, and you begin to flood your basement and you flood your basement with your own sewer water.

He told me cities are requiring these valves to protect themselves from lawsuits when they mess up and plumb the city storm drains into city sewers.

You want a Red Valve Checkmate check valve. It will work properly IF installed properly. I installed one of its big brothers on a 48" storm sewer. They go down to 3" pipe.