SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Brexit deal with the European Union
Main Page The Lounge British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Brexit deal with the European UnionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Baroque Bloke |
“MPs face a moment of truth on Brexit after Jean-Claude Juncker said the EU will not offer an extension beyond Halloween if the Commons torpedoes Boris Johnson's new deal. The commission president turned up the heat on critics of the PM's newly-sealed plan by indicating they will have a stark choice between this package - or No Deal. The dramatic intervention came as Mr Johnson insisted 'now is the moment to get Brexit done' after he signed off the blueprint, which deletes the hated Irish backstop. The premier has taken an extraordinary gamble by signing off the agreement despite fierce opposition from the DUP - who publicly spelled out a laundry list of objections and accused him of risking the break-up of the UK. The bold move tees up a massive showdown in the House of Commons on Saturday, with Mr Johnson hoping EU leaders will help him at a Brussels summit tonight by declaring that it is this package or No Deal on October 31…” https://mol.im/a/7582705 Serious about crackers | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
I say, old chap – I believe Boris has prevailed. Many doubted him, but President Trump wasn’t a doubter. Serious about crackers | |||
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| SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent  |
I'm guardedly optimistic, but let's see how it goes tomorrow in Parliament. Theresa May was once at this point, too. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
Still, it was nice of der Junker to remind Britons that a life in the EU is a life of being dictated to by bluenoses with an overweening sense of entitlement. | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/1...dline-extension.html U.K. lawmakers have voted to amend a crucial Brexit vote which now forces the government to seek an extension to the deadline and delays full approval. The amendment, introduced by former Conservative lawmaker Oliver Letwin, withholds approval of Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s withdrawal agreement with the European Union until legislation is in place, and was passed 322 to 306. The move automatically triggers the “Benn Act” which forces the prime minister to request a further extension to the October 31 deadline until January 31. Speaking after the setback, Johnson said the government will not table the meaningful vote on Saturday. “The opportunity to have a meaningful vote has effectively been passed up,” Johnson said. “I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so,” Johnson added. However by law, according to the Benn Act, Johnson has until 11:00 p.m. London time to send a letter the EU requesting an extension. It is yet to be seen how the prime minister will attempt to circumvent this. Supporters of the Letwin amendment suggest that it prevents the Government forcing through a no-deal Brexit at the end of October, while its opponents argue that it is a stalling tactic by anti-Brexit lawmakers. “Next week, the Government will introduce the legislation needed for us to leave the EU with our new deal on Oct 31 and I hope that our European colleagues and friends will not be attracted, as the opposite benches are, or should I say the front bench opposite, by delay,” Johnson further added. The Withdrawal Agreement Bill will be introduced in the House of Commons early next week and would potentially mean a vote on Tuesday evening on what is termed the “second reading,” the initial stage of a passage of bill through the House of Commons. Should it pass, this would be the first time the House has passed any bill relating to Brexit. Should it then ascend to the House of Lords, parliament’s upper chamber, and pass before the deadline, there is still a possibility that the U.K. leaves the EU on October 31. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx sure seems like one confusing process | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
^^^^^^^^ Even if Boris is forced to request the EU to grant a Brexit decision extension, it’s far from certain that the EU will grant it. Juncker, Europe Commission president, said thot he wouldn’t. In that case it’ll be a no-deal Brexit – the best form of Brexit. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
They just announced on the radio that Juncker will grant it if Boris writes him a letter. Sounds like Juncker learned all about poker by watching TV. | |||
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| Big Stack |
In the end, the Parliament is not going to allow a no deal Brexit. I the EU forces the point (not allowing an extension), Parliament will likely cave, and cancel Brexit altogether. | |||
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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici |
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici _________________________ NRA Endowment Member _________________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis | |||
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| SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
Well, Johnson's office wrote an unsigned letter to Donald Tusk stating that the British government was seeking an extension to 31 January as mandated by law, but saying that the period should be terminated early if the parties are able to ratify the deal before this date. Johnson also wrote a personal letter that he thinks further delay is a bad idea. For good measure the UK's EU ambassador wrote another one stating that the first letter was merely due to a legal obligation. I sorta understand Parliament's distrust towards Johnson after he tried to shut them out, and that they want to make sure he doesn't just let the agreed deal sit and not translate it into national legislation before 31 October, thereby still let a hard Brexit happen. But then the sponsor of the amendment that consent becomes only effective after the second step stated afterwards that the anti-Brexit coalition ends here, and he will support the government from now on. There is actually still time for the necessary legislation to be introduced and agreed on before the end of the month. Of course Johnson still needs a majority for that, but remarkably he seems to have all of his party's 28 hardline Brexiteers from the European Research Group on board in addition to the 260 Tories considered loyal anyway. He needs another 32 votes, and speculation is he might get up to 19 each from the ex-Tory independents and Labour, since that many of the latter declared their support for a deal in a letter to Jean-Claude Juncker earlier. He certainly can't count on the DUP anymore; saw a suggestion they would change their position to support a second referendum (the current deal or staying in the EU) since they would rather remain than have a customs border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. As noted, the EU Council is under no obligation to grant another extension either, though a short one might in fact be appropriate to have the time for the deal to be ratified by the European Parliament and the EU's 27 national legislatures. The original reason for the 31 October deadline is evaporating anyway, since it looks like the new Commission will not be inaugurated on 1 November as planned after the European Parliament rejected three commissioner candidates (from France, Hungary and Romania) in confirmation hearings; ostentatively over conflicts of interest and intransparent financial schemes, but likely also to stick it to the respective national governments for questionable judicial reforms and corruption. And in the case of France, for Emmanuel Macron preventing the parliament from selecting their own candidate for the Commission presidency. So their relationship with the executive is currently not too different from the British situation. | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
yes a nice move by Johnson (above post) https://news.yahoo.com/eu-mull...quest-051245011.html Late Saturday, Johnson reluctantly sent European Council President Donald Tusk a letter legally imposed on him by parliament requesting an extension -- but refused to sign it. The Conservative leader sent a second, signed letter insisting he was not seeking an extension to the Brexit deadline, which has already been postponed twice, warning that "a further extension would damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners". Having failed to back a divorce deal, which Johnson had secured on Thursday, they triggered a law requiring him to write to EU leaders asking to delay Brexit, to avoid the risk that Britain crashes out in less than a fortnight's time. Senior cabinet minister Michael Gove, the government's Brexit planning chief, was nonetheless adamant that Britain would leave the EU on schedule. "Yes. We are going to leave on October 31. We have the means and the ability to do so," | |||
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| Conveniently located directly above the center of the Earth  |
Carpe Brexit, gentlemen, carpe Brexit. **************~~~~~~~~~~ "I've been on this rock too long to bother with these liars any more." ~SIGforum advisor~ "When the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change, then change will come."~~sigmonkey | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
With enough of this back and forth, the specter of a nasty, mixed-up and utterly confusing break begins to rear it's ugly little head. Maybe the EU oughtta just take what it can get from the various factions still in the UK Parliament and run. | |||
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| SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
Parliament votes 329-299 for the Withdrawal Agreement Bill based upon the current deal on first reading, but 322-308 against Johnson's strict timetable of pushing it through in three rather than the usual 21 days, demanding more time to get in on the details. Johnson, fearing that too much time would give MPs the opportunity for all sorts of amendments endangering his hard-won majority, halts legislative process. The EU has indicated it won't decide on another extension until two days before the current 31 October deadline, raising pressure on both sides to get it done. The poker continues. | |||
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| SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
And now Johnson says that if Parliament wants more time to deal with the withdrawal bill, it should agree to a general election on 12 December, which means it would have to be disbanded on 6 November. He has promised to ratify the bill with his hoped-for subsequent majority. There's an interesting three-way stand-off here: - Johnson controls progress of the legislative proceedings. He has currently put it on hold, and if he doesn't submit the bill for further deliberation in time for final agreement before a given Brexit deadline, the UK will crash out of the EU without a deal. - Parliament controls if and when snap elections will be held, for which it needs to vote with a two-thirds majority. If they agree, they might get a long extension of the deadline, but give Johnson a boost for the election, with no guarantee he will make good on his promise to ratify the bill. If they don't, the UK may crash out anyway. - The EU controls if and how much of another extension of the Brexit deadline there will be. For a change, both France and Germany, usually on different ends of leniency to British requests, have indicated that a couple more weeks up until 1 November to give Parliament the time for non-rushed deliberation of the bill, would be no problem. However, the official request Johnson was legally mandated to make asks for an extension to 31 January, and the official EU position is this would need a major reason like new elections or a second Brexit referendum in the UK. Moreover, incoming Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has stated that if the Brits stayed in beyond the inauguration of the new Commission tentatively planned for 1 November, they should nominate a commissioner to exercise their right as an EU member to a seat at the table, or it would open all sorts of legal trouble. Which would mean either additional hassle and expense for little practical gain, or raise the specter of the UK staying in even longer. If a short extension is granted, Parliament could deliberate on the bill with the usual time, but might make amendments which might endanger the majority to pass it. For example, they could write in a requirement for the government to ask for an extension of the transitional period following Brexit, currently stipulated in the deal to last until the end of next year, when the EU's current five-year financial planning frame runs out. During this time, EU regulations would continue to apply in the UK and it would continue to pay though it would already be out of the institutions, while both sides negotiate an agreement defining their future relations, particularly trade. If Brexit had occurred on 29 March as originally planed, this period would already have been demanding, as international trade agreements typically take several years to negotiate. For example, for CETA between the EU and Canada it took seven years to signature, for EPA with Japan five. The longer Brexit gets delayed, the shorter the time for negotiations. If no agreement is reached at the end of the period, the economical hazards of a hard Brexit could still occur. Few people are aware of this, as they usually think that the current deal already covers future trade relations - when it actually regulates only the modalities of the UK leaving the EU. The promise of basically such a delayed hard Brexit if necessary is with what Johnson got the hardliners from his own party on board for the current deal, and the issue has the potential to continue the same endless back-and-forth for yet another several long years. Of course there's no guarantee the same wouldn't happen if a long extension to the current deadline is granted and there are new elections in the UK, unless Johnson wins an outright majority of loyalists. Just for all those who thought we're nearing the end of this saga. | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
 “Nigel Farage today called for the government to put up a statue of Emmanuel Macron if the French president vetoes a Brexit delay. The MEP suggested the tribute to Mr Macron could be erected next to Nelson's Column in central London - making him a 'French all-British hero'. But Mr Farage told MailOnline he expects EU leaders to sign off a long delay - and warned that the standoff could last for months longer…” https://mol.im/a/7613231 Serious about crackers | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
https://www.breitbart.com/euro...ree-month-extension/ Brexit Likely Delayed to 2020 as Macron Backs Three-month Extension It appears that Brexit will be delayed until 2020, as France’s Emmanuel Macron has swung behind a three-month extension to the departure deadline. The French president had reportedly been pushing for a much shorter extension, pushing back the October 31st deadline just a few weeks to mid-November to give British prime minister Boris Johnson enough time to get his revised version of Theresa May’s withdrawal treaty with the European Union through the Houses of Parliament. It seems anti-Brexit British MPs and EU Council chief Donald Tusk will now get the three-month extension they had been pushing for, however, with a French official signalling to Bloomberg that Macron was willing to sign off on it. The delay — which will be the third since Brexit was originally supposed to take place on March 29th 2019, already years after the British people voted to Leave the European Union in June 2016 — was later all but finalised by President Tusk on social media. “The EU27 has agreed that it will accept the UK’s request for a #Brexit flextension until 31 January 2020,” he wrote on Twitter, the EU27 being the governments of the 27 member-states of the European Union besides the United Kingdom. “The decision is expected to be formalised through a written procedure.” Boris Johnson had not wanted to ask for another Brexit delay, and had vowed he would “rather be dead in a ditch” than ask for one — but MPs in the House of Commons, around 70 per cent of whom voted Remain in 2016, thwarted him by ramming a law dubbed “the Surrender Act” ordering the Prime Minister to ask for one, and even laid out in precise terms how the request should be worded. Until almost the last minute, Johnson hinted he would not comply with the Act, but in the end he sent the letter, attempting to appease Brexit supporters by sending it to President Tusk in the form of an unsigned photocopy, along with a signed letter saying he personally did not support an extension. It was the unsigned photocopy which had the force of law behind it, however, and the EU has accepted its request for a three-month extension and discarded Johnson’s signed letter asking them not to. | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
This Brexit thing is never going to end, is it? Is that the game? To just have endless delays and new deadlines? | |||
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Member |
Yep. It solves everyone's problem except those that voted for it. Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed. | |||
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| SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
 The new extension, as the last, actually says the Brits can also leave on either 1 December or 1 January if they just get the bloody deal ratified. Meanwhile the British Parliament is about to vote on Johnson's proposal to debate the Withdrawal Bill until 6 November, then have general elections on 12 December. Or alternately on a proposal by the anti-Brexit Liberal Democrats and Scottish National Party to hold elections on 9 December, on the reasoning that there then would be no time to pass the deal before the end of the year (they filed this before the EU granted the long extension today). It's frankly getting rather silly.
https://www.standard.co.uk/new...motion-a4272076.html | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Brexit deal with the European Union
Main Page The Lounge British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Brexit deal with the European Union© SIGforum 2024