quote:

Lauri Allan Törni (28 May 1919 – 18 October 1965), later known as Larry Alan Thorne, was a Finnish soldier who fought under three flags: as a Finnish Army Second Lieutenant of the Fourth Independent Jäger Infantry Battalion against the Soviets in the Winter War and the Soviet-Finnish sub-theater of World War II known as the Continuation War; as a German Army Captain (under the alias Larry Lane) of the Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the Waffen-SS when he fought the Soviets on the Eastern Front in World War II; and as a United States Army Captain (under the alias "Larry Thorne") when he served in the U.S. Army Special Forces in the Vietnam War.

Törni died in a helicopter crash during the Vietnam War and he was promoted to rank of Major posthumously. His remains were located three decades later and then buried in Arlington National Cemetery; he is the only former member of the Waffen SS to be interred there.

I had never heard of this guy, although I knew about Rick Rescorla.

He really hated the Reds!

Wiki link

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Screw this SS scum.

quote:

Originally posted by Steyn:
The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Screw this SS scum.

He killed a lot of commies. I'm giving him a pass on wearing the SS patch.

IIRC, After WWII quite a few Waffen SS soldiers enlisted in the French Foreign Legion.
I would guess that "Thorne" was a true professional soldier who went Waffen SS as it was the only way to stay in his profession.
Werner Von Braun was one of the architects of the WWII German missile program that targeted Britain during the war. He then helped put us on the moon, eventually.
Not much difference, I guess.
The Deaths Head badge is disturbing though.

Thanks for posting this as I had never heard the story of this soldier before. If the Wikipedia article is accurate then "Thorne" led a very compelling life. I don't know whether he was motivated by patriotism for Finland or the U.S., or whether it was ideological opposition to Communism but, as strange as it sounds when considering his German Army service, I'm grateful that he served the U.S.

It would have been most interesting to meet him.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
IIRC, After WWII quite a few Waffen SS soldiers enlisted in the French Foreign Legion.
I would guess that "Thorne" was a true professional soldier who went Waffen SS as it was the only way to stay in his profession.
Werner Von Braun was one of the architects of the WWII German missile program that targeted Britain during the war. He then helped put us on the moon, eventually.
Not much difference, I guess.
The Deaths Head badge is disturbing though.

I think you are correct in characterizing "Thorne" as a professional soldier, but, if the Wikipedia article is accurate it seems to me he joined the German SS because he had no way to get home back to Finland at the time...it was a move more of pragmatism rather than shared idealistic beliefs.

Like the Swastika, the "Deaths Head Badge", was hijacked by the NAZIs and prior to their use it actually had an honorable, or at least respected, symbolism. Even the U.S. armed forces have used versions of it.




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0C3Vezw9Q

The skull and crossbones is also the cap badge of the British Army's 17th lancers, with the motto 'Or Glory' later joined with the 21st Lancers to become the famous WW2 17/21st Lancers.

He sure loved the "military".

In a German context, the death's head was most famously used by the three Totenkopfhusaren regiments of the Prussian Army (1st and 2nd Life Hussars and Brunswick Hussar Regiment No. 17). The traditional meaning was that quarter was neither given nor expected, which certainly fit the self-image of the SS.



The Waffen-SS underwent profound changes during its existence. Its roots were in the SS Verfügungstruppe political shock troops, Hitler's personal Leibstandarte bodyguard, but also the KZ guard Totenkopfverbände which had the death's head in their very name. These elements formed the first three divisions of the Waffen-SS when it was established in 1939, initially as part of the regular Wehrmacht (the Verfügungsdivision later became 2nd SS Division "Das Reich"). From 1940 it was an independent military organization, meant to be an ideological and racial elite fighting force. The KZ guard units also came under it though, and the Totenkopfdivision committed the first war crimes of the Waffen-SS, of which the organization overall had an above-average share among German troops in WW II.

The Waffen-SS made earlier and stronger efforts to recruit foreign volunteers than the Wehrmacht, since it was restricted to do so in Germany proper for the benefit of the latter. This was particularly aimed at ethnic Germans from allied and occupied East German countries, as well as "Germanic" volunteers from the Nordic and Benelux nations, where they received a monopoly on recruitment. 5th SS Division "Wiking" was established in 1940 already with troops from Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden and a couple Swiss, but also a German regiment, because supply of Nordic volunteers alone was insufficient. "Non-Germanic" volunteers initially went to the Wehrmacht.

After the start of the war against the USSR in 1941, "legions" from Dutch, Belgian, French and Croatian volunteers were raised, two thirds of which were "non-Germanic". From 1943, all those were put under command of the Waffen-SS, despite some resistance from the respective national pro-German governments (Finland in fact recalled its citizens and integrated them into its own army at that point). They were eventually transformed into their own divisions, though some never reached appropriate strength. The distinction between "Germanic" and "non-Germanic" formations remained in the designation of proper SS divisions and Waffen-Grenadier Divisionen der SS, which didn't wear the SS runes. The underlying ideology now was of a multi-national crusade against Bolshevism rather than a racial elite.

SS formations eventually included Ukrainian, Belorussian and Russian ones, Serbs, Albanians, etc. They were often employed in anti-partisan warfare and committed some of the most brutal war crimes, like 29th Waffen-Grenadier Division (Russian No. 1) in the crackdown of the Warsaw Uprising in 1944. Some Ukrainian, Baltic and Balkan formations were also notorious for this. At that point, rather than recruiting volunteers, troops were simply drafted into the Waffen-SS both from Germany and allied/occupied countries, so the initial idea behind the organization had been completely reverted.

Thank you for this snippet of history.

quote:

Originally posted by Steyn:
Screw this SS scum.

As he is dead, I don’t believe that’s possible.

I find it easier and more informative to read history if I don’t filter my perception of the facts through my personal outrage. I can attest from personal knowledge that some of the men who fought the Axis powers in World War II were xenophobic racists and showed little self-control and understanding of what was good for them by being heavy smokers and drinkers. That doesn’t mean that I have any less respect for the ones who waded ashore at Normandy or Guadalcanal, slogged up the boot of Italy, braved the flak over Germany, endured the kamikazes, survived the horrors of Bataan, or fought in countless other engagements and saw their best friends die beside them.

Almost everyone today who knows anything whatsoever about the era also knows that not only organizations like the SS, but also the German forces in general committed horrible atrocities during the Nazi regime. I personally have a far greater understanding of those atrocities than most people, so I don’t have to remind myself of those facts when reading about some long-dead member of a long-defunct organization. I’m pretty sure there were xenophobic racists (by today’s definitions) at Thermopylae and Cannae as well. Even today I don’t have to admire someone’s personal attributes and character to be interested in, and sometimes approve of his accomplishments. If that weren’t true, I wouldn’t have just sent $500 to my favorite politician whom I’m not very enamored of as a person.