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Picture of Hammer1967
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quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
I should add that consumer launch monitors are generally not worthwhile for game improvement.
They simply don't provide enough data for someone serious about working on their game. It's nice to dial in your carry distances but it's not hard to do that without a $500 monitor. Knowing things like clubhead speed, ball speed and spin rate is nice, but there is very little you can do with the information to improve your shotmaking. To do something with the information, you need to know what is causing the numbers to be what they are and you get none of that info with the $500 and below consumer products.

To actually get data that tells you what you are doing and what you can work on, you need a high end monitor that provide complete data like spin loft, dynamic loft, club path, clubface angle, angle of attack, launch angle, dispersion, etc. That's the kind of information that tells you what is actually happening in your swing and guides you towards improving it.

I wouldn't actually recommend any consumer product. The Mevo+ or Skytrak at $2k is the minimum I would recommend for people wanting to improve their game. If that's out of your budget, I would save the $500 or use it for a clubfitting, which will provide more benefits.



Thanks for the post, it make a lot of sense.


__________________________

If Jesus would have had a gun he would be alive today. Homer Simpson
“Him plenty dead” Tonto
 
Posts: 1039 | Location: TN | Registered: February 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you consistently hit a drive between 220 and 240, a 5 wood around 200, and a 5 iron around 170 (like me) would a launch monitor help much? If you skull the ball on chips a lot and 3 putt a lot (like me) will a launch monitor help much? I don't have a hard time telling whether or not I've struck the ball well or really bad. Tee box to 50 yards out isn't much of a problem for me. 50 yards to in the cup is a really big problem I have. That 50 yard in thing can really add to a score (+9 - +18) on an otherwise good game.
 
Posts: 6845 | Registered: October 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
If you consistently hit a drive between 220 and 240, a 5 wood around 200, and a 5 iron around 170 (like me) would a launch monitor help much? If you skull the ball on chips a lot and 3 putt a lot (like me) will a launch monitor help much? I don't have a hard time telling whether or not I've struck the ball well or really bad. Tee box to 50 yards out isn't much of a problem for me. 50 yards to in the cup is a really big problem I have. That 50 yard in thing can really add to a score (+9 - +18) on an otherwise good game.


I would say a LM would help you less than on full swings.
Hitting in the center of the club is a key fundamental.
I would say just practice more on your short game.
In fact most all of us should practice that part more than the full swing anyway.
It is where all the money is made. Smile
 
Posts: 19275 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wingfoot
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I wish driving ranges and golf courses would have some high end launch monitors that you could rent by the hour. They're just too expensive for most amateurs to own. I mainly would like to use them to get my 1/2 - 3/4 wedge distance dialed in. That would be the most helpful to my game.

I did try the Sim2 Max last Friday and was able to compare to my older M3. On flush hits my driver that day on the monitor was about 277 yards and with the Sim2 was getting several in the 288 range and off center hits weren't as bad with the Sim2. $529 is a lot to pay for a new driver, I usually buy used ones that are about a year old for about haly MSRP.
 
Posts: 1719 | Location: Peachtree City, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
I wish driving ranges and golf courses would have some high end launch monitors that you could rent by the hour.

The LGS (Local Golf Store in this context) near me has TrackMan launch monitors on the driving range that are free.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 20586 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wingfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
I wish driving ranges and golf courses would have some high end launch monitors that you could rent by the hour.

The LGS (Local Golf Store in this context) near me has TrackMan launch monitors on the driving range that are free.


Holy cow, that is nice! We don't have anything like that and I live in a huge golf community with some serious players. I'm sure our membership would actually pay to use it.
 
Posts: 1719 | Location: Peachtree City, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hammer1967
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I’ve decided to keep my money in my pocket.

After reading tons of reviews I don’t think any of the under $500 group work consistently.


__________________________

If Jesus would have had a gun he would be alive today. Homer Simpson
“Him plenty dead” Tonto
 
Posts: 1039 | Location: TN | Registered: February 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer1967:
I’ve decided to keep my money in my pocket.

That's probably wise. I'm sure that eventually somebody will make a $500 LM that works, but not right now.

That being said: If I decide to try the SuperSpeed system, I may acquire their PRGR LM ($200) so I can measure my swing speed gains.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 20586 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer1967:
I’ve decided to keep my money in my pocket.

After reading tons of reviews I don’t think any of the under $500 group work consistently.


Agreed. The best $100 you can spend is to Google a place nearby that has a Trackman or GC Quad and spend an hour hitting your top three of four choices. The accurate data will speak for itself (whether you want to limit dispersion or maximize distance).

*EDIT Try this. https://mytrackman.com/public/locator
 
Posts: 509 | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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quote:
I'm sure that eventually somebody will make a $500 LM that works, but not right now.


They do work and in all honesty pretty good.
However, for me I want something just a little better.

I was heavily contemplating the $500 Mevo vs the $2K Mevo Plus.


The problem for me is that I would prefer they measure enough parameters and they aren't quite as accurate or consistent in their measurement as their big brothers aka the $2K models.

It's not only what they measure but how they measure and the system on the the more expensive ones are far superior.
I've seen plenty of YouTube side-by-side demo videos and the $2K ones are clearly superior in the how they obtain the measurement results.

A couple more things that I think could be improved other than the technical side is 1) how it is displayed (if you didn't HAVE to use a phone to display, etc) and 2) I could do without the simulation software to hit indoors that just drives the cost up.

For me if there was an outdoor model with ALL the measurement parameters, accurate, consistent and easy to read after each swing without pulling a phone out of your pocket that would be ideal (for me) and perhaps cheaper or put in more/some of the technology that a Foresight or Trackman has.
 
Posts: 19275 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer1967:
I’ve decided to keep my money in my pocket.

And that is a reasonable decision. Down the road you can look at the options again.

As I noted in earlier posts, I've spent some time with Foresight GC2 indoors, and I've determined the following:
- The G80 is very close in club and ball speed, which means smash factor (club efficiency) is good. The G80's carry distances are understated by 6% for my altitude. G80 roll distances mean nothing to me, especially for irons. GC2 work at PGA Superstore indicates my backspin rates are high, which is backed up by ball movement on greens. With my Titleist Pro V1 balls, approach shots stick if the greens have been watered.
- GC2 data indicates I strike the ball fairly squarely, with a slightly greater than average downward angle. I tend to have a slight fade spin, and sometimes I pull to the left a bit. At times I produce a slight left spin, which usually doesn't affect ball flight.

- I have a public course with a driving range about a mile from the office. Now that the weather is slowly improving, I try to hit a small bucket of balls once or twice a week at lunch. Between the G80 monitor and strike spray, I'm re-learning to strike the ball with greater consistency. I'm learning that my clubs are more forgiving with a miss-hit towards the heel than towards the toe. Impacts slightly low on the face fly better than those slightly high on the face.

Here's some pics of one lunch session. First up, my 41 degree 9 iron. This is one of my better hits, but not a perfect strike -- the smash factor is a touch low. Understand that range balls come off the face slower than a Pro V1, so I'm losing a few points there. Then add 6% for Denver's thinner air. End result is a 140-ish yard reasonable max for my 9 iron, coming into a green.


Onto my 27 degree 5 iron. Higher smash factor due to lower club loft. Adjust for altitude, and here's my 185-190 yard max club to a green.


A 24 degree 4 iron. Still struggling here, as the sweet spot is the size of a micro dot.


Now for the old-tech 9.5 degree driver. Short irons are way more important to a round's score, but it is nice to see your own drives fly... New drivers produce smash factors of close to 1.50 for sweet hits. The 149 mph ball speed is the fastest I've done with this club to date. Just "slightly slower" than DeChambeau's 195+ mph missiles.


I'm looking forward to chasing the little white ball on a course. Once it stops snowing around here.
 
Posts: 6962 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of cne32507
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I tend to have a slight fade spin, and sometimes I pull to the left a bit.


Common problem. I had it for years. You already know what causes that, right? If you can keep this casting move to a minimum, you will hit the slight fade, which is scoring nirvana. Just ask Jack.
 
Posts: 2514 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
I'm sure that eventually somebody will make a $500 LM that works, but not right now.

They do work and in all honesty pretty good.
However, ...

The problem for me is ... and they aren't quite as accurate or consistent in their measurement as their big brothers aka the $2K models.

That's what I meant by "that works."

Measurement devices that aren't accurate or consistent (repeatable) I feel can do as much harm as good.

E.g.: I bought a Blast Motion Golf sensor--mainly to help improve my putting stroke. At first it really seemed to be helping. But then, for whatever reason, its performance became erratic. I ended-up spending more time chasing trying to get that sensor to work than I did improvement of my putting. My putting was actually getting worse, not better. Finally I said "screw it!", put the thing away, deleted the app, and went back to working on my putting.

Immediate improvement in my putting.

Camera and computing tech is improving all the time. Just look at what one can achieve with a $200 smartphone camera these days. Someday, before too much longer, somebody (probably Chinese Frown) will come out with a GC2- or GCQuad-like device for well under $1k. And it will work.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 20586 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wingfoot
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Originally posted by fritz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hammer1967:



Now for the old-tech 9.5 degree driver. Short irons are way more important to a round's score, but it is nice to see your own drives fly... New drivers produce smash factors of close to 1.50 for sweet hits. The 149 mph ball speed is the fastest I've done with this club to date. Just "slightly slower" than DeChambeau's 195+ mph missiles.


I'm looking forward to chasing the little white ball on a course. Once it stops snowing around here.



That is really good club head speed you got!
 
Posts: 1719 | Location: Peachtree City, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by wingfoot:
That is really good club head speed you got!

Thanks. It is what it is -- it's not like I try to swing fast. In the early 2000's, when I played a lot, I recall my driver club speed was around 102-104 mph. Over the past five years I've manually chopped yucca with a pick ax from 100+ acres of pasture land. That appears to have increased my club head speed, but at the expense of swing that's a bit too vertical and ongoing soreness of the middle and ring fingers both hands. A couple of years of video training with GolfTEC resulted in a fairly respectable swing plane, which is gone for the time being.

Back to the Garmin cheapie launch monitor. Over a number of lunch-time practice sessions at muni course that's quite close to work, I now have pretty solid stats on my old TaylorMade clubs. The caveat is distance. The G80's carry figures are calibrated for sea level air density, and thus I must add 6% for Denver air. I ignore the G80's "carry + roll" metrics, as the unit doesn't measure ball spin. Furthermore, with my preferred Pro V1 balls, I really don't get much roll on greens which have been watered. With wedges through 8 iron, I generally back up the ball a bit on a good green.

The following are solid strikes, with good contact near the sweet spots of the given clubs. I've thrown out the inevitable pulled shots, which take the ball a bit left and add maybe 5-7 yards to distance. This data is what I'll use to evaluate distance capabilities of new clubs.



For the most part, I'm OK with the yardage performance of my current clubs. I've known for a long time there's a pretty big yardage gap between my 55-degree sandwedge and my 50-degree approach wedge. The G80 confirms that. I suspected there might be a bit larger than optimal yardage gap between my 8i and 7i, but that really didn't cause major issues in the past. This chart is why I don't want new clubs with jacked-up lofts and 6-degree gaps between irons.
 
Posts: 6962 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I took a vacation day and played my first round of the year. The Garmin G80's course information is dead on for the course I played. Hazards are right where they're listed on the G80's screen. Yardage is accurate, both near marked sprinkler caps and out in the middle of where one doesn't intend to be. The G80 is pretty easy to use. I'm quite pleased with the device, for both a budget launch monitor and a course GPS.

Course conditions weren't optimal. Winds were a pretty constant 20 mph, with noticeably higher gusts. Call it a 2-club-length wind. Fairway grass was short, and packed onto firm dirt. Almost like hardpan, and taking divots on wedges really wasn't an option. Hitting out of first cut, just off the fairways was actually better. But greens were fairly soft, spongy, and really s-l-o-w.

I put 5 balls into water on the front nine, and 2 on the back nine. Not a great scoring day. But hey, I wasn't in the office. Looks like it's going to snow overnight.
 
Posts: 6962 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wingfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
For your budget, the Rapsodo Mobile Launch Monitor appears to get pretty decent reviews. It uses your phone's camera. Cons: It doesn't do spin rate and people have had mixed success with it hitting into a net.

Here's is a review and review thread on it: Rapsodo Mobile Launch Monitor Review and Rapsodo Mobile Launch Monitor - THP Review Thread

Here's a recent thread on personal launch monitors on THP: Launch monitors for personal use

You might want to hold off until finding out whatever this, from one of the site staff, means, though:
quote:

Early testing for me though, we have a number of launch monitors that do function so I’m just hopeful they work for others

It seems to kinda sorta maybe imply they might be doing a personal/mobile launch monitor shoot-out. (Have never seen them do an equipment shoot-out, before, though.)


My Golf Spy did a nice review of the Rapsodo, I am definitely looking at this one. Just missing spin rates but the company says they are working on this. I may still get one and hopefully they will get spin data in the near future.
 
Posts: 1719 | Location: Peachtree City, GA | Registered: January 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
My Golf Spy did a nice review of the Rapsodo, ...

Reviews of the Rapsodo in actual use by golfers are kind of mixed: Rapsodo Mobile Launch Monitor - THP Review Thread.

quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
I am definitely looking at this one.

At the same price point I'd wait and see how this one shakes-out, first: Voice Caddie SC300i Launch Monitor

quote:
Originally posted by wingfoot:
Just missing spin rates but the company says they are working on this.

The only spin rates they'll ever produce will be mathematically calculated. There's no way a single, front-facing cell phone camera is ever going to capture ball spin. The problem there, of course, is spin actually varies greatly, depending upon exactly where on the club face the ball is struck.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 20586 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now in Florida
Picture of ChicagoSigMan
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This new entry from Garmin looks super-interesting:

Garmin Approach R10
 
Posts: 5901 | Location: FL | Registered: March 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
A bit more on the smash factor thing. It's an eye opener on striking consistency, and on the differences between clubs. Short irons are less efficient in translating club head speed to forward ball speed. Some of the club energy is transferred into spinning the ball, and some is transferred to directing the ball at a steeper climb rate.



Is this also caused by the ball sliding up the club face of the more lofted clubs on impact?




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50150 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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