I was watching a Larry Potterfield video about recreating one of Custer's rifles, and he mentioned "lock, stock, and barrel". I've heard that phrase my entire life, and understood it's meaning to be 'the entire thing'. But as much as I grew up around guns I never realized the origin of the phrase. Am I the only one?

This also makes me think about other sayings that we use without thinking about the origins, ie. "he's got his work cut out for him".

So, tell me if I'm the only clueless guy, or if you have a saying of which you can share the origin.

I think there are several accounts, but the most plausible one is that it dates back to the days of flintlocks. The firing mechanism (lock,) the stock and the barrel are necessary to make a complete firearm. Other expressions referring to entirety include, but aren't limited to, "the whole nine yards," "the whole shebang," "the whole ball of wax," etc., each with its own unknown or apocryphal origin, and none of which make any sense.

Are you sure it wasn't Lock, Shock, and Barrel?

No, no, no... The phrase originated with the residents of a small fishing village near Loch Stokinbarel in Scotland.

The phrase "lock and load" is similarly ubiquitous, with many people who use it not even realizing it's a firearm term. Among those that do, there is still confusion concerning its origins. Some people believe it refers to the manual of arms of the M1 Garand, while others insist its origins hailed from the Viet Nam era and M16 operation.

Lock and load far preceded our adventure in sunny south east Asia.

‘Lock’ Refers to pulling the bolt back and locking it in place.

‘Load’ refers to inserting the clip into the rifle which releases the bolt and chambers a round.

Lock and load was a single command.

We used it in Viet Nam too but it’s origins predated the plastic fantastic made by Mattel by a generation.

Elijah McCoys brass oilers for steam powered trains..the real McCoy.

"The whole nine yards" refers to cement trucks. They are rated at 8 yards of cement but can be filled to 9. 9 is completely topped off.


Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
"The whole nine yards" refers to cement trucks. They are rated at 8 yards of cement but can be filled to 9. 9 is completely topped off.


Bruce

I always thought it was fighter planes holding 9 yards of belted 30 cal ammo, the comment being 'i got him but it took the whole 9 yards'

Believe it or not, the origin of "the whole nine yards" is not officially known. Numerous theories include .30 ammunition belts of WWI, .50 belts of WWII, and cement mixer capacity, but apparently the phrase pre-dates both world wars and the automobile.

The phrase actually appears in writing before 1900!

I always thought that the origin of the phrase "lock, stock and barrel" was a real estate transaction term. In regard to the sale of a farm, it meant that the sale included all the personal property of the farmstead. In pre-industrial times, locks were expensive, as were barrels. Stock referred to livestock. So a farm sold "lock, stock and barrel" was referring to a "turn key", all inclusive, transaction.

It actually makes more sense that it refers to firearms, now that you mention it.

Mind your Ps and Qs.

Bartenders keeping track of pints and quarts consumed by patrons on a chalkboard behind the bar. Refers to bartenders occasionally adding a pint or quart when the patron wasn’t paying attention to increase the tab.

Or alternatively, when setting movable type for printing, not to confuse the p with the q and ruin the entire job.

“Doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.” In journalism, not confusing the word “burro” (ass) with “burrow” (hole in the ground). Or so I’m told.

The term lock stock and barrel comes from when you could find a gun smith that were able to make the lock or the stock and barrel at one shop. Where in earlier times you had to go to one person for the stock, and another for the lock and barrel. This was the beginning of American gun manufacturing.

There are many expressions that originally related to firearms. Some are less common now, but are still sometimes encountered. A few that come to mind:

“He’s just a flash in the pan” refers to the ignition of the priming powder in a flintlock firearm’s pan, but the failure of it to ignite the main charge in the barrel. The term evolved somewhat to refer to someone who makes a good first impression, but who doesn’t perform or have staying power in the long run.

“Hanging fire” refers to something that doesn’t occur when expected or desired.

“Keep your powder dry” means stay prepared to do something, especially something critical that may require immediate action.

“Going off half-cocked” refers to the fact that many early firearms with hammers had “half cock” notches that the sear engaged to allow capping a nipple without the hammer being fully cocked or to allow the cylinder of a revolver to be turned freely for loading. If the sear broke or the notch wasn’t designed properly, the hammer could slip from that position and unexpectedly fire the gun with bad results. The term evolved somewhat into meaning that someone acted without not only intention, but impulsively without adequate thought and preparation.

There are others to be found on the Internet.

And yes, the explanation I always heard for “Mind your Ps and Qs” related to the days of manual typesetting. Because they were both reversed when dealing with type, there was a tendency to not recognize that one had picked up the wrong (lower case) one.

The “lock and load” thing is subject to countless Internet debates, some quite heated by people who are only repeating what they heard elsewhere. It does indeed go back before the M16, but some of us believe that it was simply a corruption of the original “load and lock” that makes more sense about earlier weapons because it could refer to loading the weapon and then “locking” it for readiness but not immediate use by engaging the safety or placing the hammer in the half cock position with the percussion cap on the nipple or even the frizzen closed over the (flintlock) pan. Today’s equivalent command in a competition setting is “load and make ready,” i.e., “Load your gun by whatever process is necessary and get ready to shoot, but don’t fire until you receive a follow-up command or signal.”

A command to “lock” the weapon before loading really makes no sense and is unnecessary at best because if the bolt must be open, that’s part of the loading process just as it’s necessary to operate the slide of an autoloading pistol as part of the loading process. Engaging the safety or leaving the hammer at half cock is a separate action that may alert soldiers to be ready, but not to fire immediately. But that’s my opinion, of course, because I wasn’t around when either term originated.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Believe it or not, the origin of "the whole nine yards" is not officially known. Numerous theories include .30 ammunition belts of WWI, .50 belts of WWII, and cement mixer capacity, but apparently the phrase pre-dates both world wars and the automobile.

The phrase actually appears in writing before 1900!

I had always been told the phrase referred to a bolt of fabric. The amount of a bolt of fabric was determined by the amount required for a monk's robes. Thus to make monk's robes, one needed "the whole nine yards."

Sadly, with the passage of time, things are often lost.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
The phrase "lock and load" is similarly ubiquitous, with many people who use it not even realizing it's a firearm term. Among those that do, there is still confusion concerning its origins. Some people believe it refers to the manual of arms of the M1 Garand, while others insist its origins hailed from the Viet Nam era and M16 operation.

Do not know where that lock and load phrase came from, but we used it in the mid '50s when I enlisted in the army. Standard command when on the ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by sjp:

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
"The whole nine yards" refers to cement trucks. They are rated at 8 yards of cement but can be filled to 9. 9 is completely topped off.


Bruce

I always thought it was fighter planes holding 9 yards of belted 30 cal ammo, the comment being 'i got him but it took the whole 9 yards'

Yes, I remember that one.

A friend of mine, a retired Navy fighter pilot (A-6's for those of you who care) and former test pilot (yes, he's got the "right stuff") told me that the term "balls to the wall" comes from flying.

Aircraft controls used to have balls for gripping on the end of the sticks. Pushing them all the way forward, toward the firewall that separated the cockpit from the engine compartment was pushing them "balls to the wall."

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
A friend of mine, a retired Navy fighter pilot (A-6's for those of you who care) and former test pilot (yes, he's got the "right stuff") told me that the term "balls to the wall" comes from flying.

Aircraft controls used to have balls for gripping on the end of the sticks. Pushing them all the way forward, toward the firewall that separated the cockpit from the engine compartment was pushing them "balls to the wall."

"balls to the wall and wet" --- full throttle and water injection engaged.

"Lock and Load" goes back to at least the Trapdoor Springfield's and possibly to the Allin and previous conversions to cartridge.

You had to lock the hammer back in order to lift the trapdoor and load the cartridge.

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