Sounds like my homeowner's insurance is offering to subsidize the cost and install of either a Flo or Flume device to detect / stop water leakage.

Any thoughts on these two devices? Recommendations of one vs the other?

Are these devices good to go and recommended? Or can be problematic?

I've never had a water leakage problem in any house. The only exception is where I've had irrigation lines break. But nothing interior to the house. I think the biggest risk is the water heater bursting but from SF, it seems most likely that a leak will start first rather than a sudden large burst.

So, while I think the device may be of debatable utility, it might be something to get if the costs are subsidized AND I also get an discount on premiums.

Thoughts?

The chick from the Progressive commercial is coming to your house to check for water leaks? Nice!

I had this conversation with a plumber a few weeks ago.

FWIW he said you're far more likely to get a big water leak from a washing machine hose or even a dishwasher leak.
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quote:

FWIW he said you're far more likely to get a big water leak from a washing machine hose or even a dishwasher leak.

So, don't need these Flo / Flume types of devices? Or is he saying that it's a good idea?

^^^^^^^^^

Sorry, my comment didn't really answer your question directly, yet my comment does have relevance referring to water leaks. And sorry I did not see this until just now.

He was referring to, in his experience, people never replacing their washing machine hoses, and that the stainless steel braided hoses give people a false comfort belief that they will not leak as readily as the traditional rubber hoses. Washer hoses will cause just as much damage as anything else leaking water in the house. (excluding having the washer/dryer in another place, perhaps an outbuilding, etc.)

I apologize for not answering your question specifically. My goal was to tell others to check washer hoses, as they are out of sight and out of mind...until they leak.

The under the cabinet/sink hoses to and from the dish washer are just as prone to leak as anything else.

He thinks that people should pull out their washer and dryer every 5 to 7 years and inspect the hoses, and preferably replace them at that time. The water shutoff valves should be inspected for leaking, as a water leak inside the wall will pretty much guarantee mold issues. Additonally he strongly recommends having the dryer insides and vent system cleared and cleaned of lint, to prevent fires.
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What is there to think about?

Free or super cheap. Could prevent a disaster. I have a friend whose dishwasher cost her new wood floors and some carpet downstairs. Her house is ten or fifteen years old. If there is a similar leak upstairs, it only gets more expensive.

OKC - thanks. Good info. No worries. Agree that there are a number of places where leaks could occur. But in all my years and places I've lived, I've never had a leak, let alone a catastrophic one.

I guess that's my reservation. Not sure I'll ever have a problem and installing something like Flo is just another thing that may need to be maintained, replaced on occasion, break down, cause problems, etc. For example, I would assume that Flo has a normally open valve; if the valve fails, it will fail open. But even then, what if it frequently has false fails and then the valve sticks when closed?

I love Moen, great customer service and they stand behind their warranty. But I'm also having to replace parts in the shower and faucets regularly (forget the name of the part but it's pretty common). Am I gonna have to do that here as well?

I'm torn - something that likely will never be used but very valuable if needed. Yet something that may also need attention.

Maybe I'll call my agent and see if they have some stats (why is insurance offering this deal)?

In my 52 years as a plumber, rubber washing machine hoses are the biggest bad leak culprit, failing sump pumps #2. Have never seen a water heater burst, only start leaking. I have seen relief valves let loose and cause pretty good damage in finished basements.

They will probably be like these new water-powered sump pump backup systems. They are in so long before they are needed that they don't usually work when needed. Customers with these are advised by me to test them every other month, most forget

One of the most annoying things cheap contractors do is cinstall cheap cut off valves instead of brass ones

I'm out of town for weeks at a time several times a year. I got it for peace of mind, but I got a LeakSmart kit. I think the systems you mention have a subscription fee associated with them. The LeakSmart has sensors on the floor that when they detect moisture they send a signal to the valve to close. I just have to remember to change the batteries in the sensors once a year. There is also an app and it will alert you if it detects water.

Question: I think I'm going to go for Flo. If it has any issues, I think I can remove it pretty quickly and install a threaded piece of pipe in an emergency (will have it available in advance).

Need to figure out what size to get: the main valve is 1 1/4" but the output from the valve gets reduced to 1" pipe before entering the house.

I'm guessing it's best to use 1 1/4" Flo at the output of the main valve and then reduce to 1" between Flo and the house.

Thoughts?

Also, should I put Flo between the main valve and irrigation branch off? Or should I have the irrigation branch off first and then the Flo valve coming into the house?

Getting concerned about the practical usage of this. Not finding a lot of reviews that report big issues. But, it seems like this device works by basically memorizing usage patterns over a week or two. How much is used at a particular time, etc.

That seems okay if, for example, you always take showers that last 3 minutes at the same time every day. But if you happen to take a 5 minute shower, or take a shower at 8am instead of 7am, it seems like this device treats that as a leak and shuts of the water supply.

We'll see how well this really works. But if it's annoying, may end up just turning it on only when we're away on vacation. That's probably when we would need it most anyway....

Anybody have any first hand experience with this device?

^^^^^^ If you're going to take a vacation, I suggest you just turn the water off at the main.

I'm assuming you have access to the main and the tool to turn the valve off and on.

Where I live all the water meters are in the yard near the street, or behind the house near the property line. All you have to do is remove the 15-ish-inch cover and take the tool and turn it off or on.

Depending on what you have, you might need to turn off the water heater. Consult a local plumber for his advice on that.

Best wishes to you.
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The flo- logic memory type leak detectors were not worth installing and I removed every one that customers insisted be installed. That was 10-12 years ago before retiring, they may have improved.
Replace rubber WM hoses every 2 years, SS every 5. The hoses flood more houses than anything else.
On electric water heaters, the element threads will strip out and then you have a big hole under pressure. Unusual but it happens.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
^^^^^^ If you're going to take a vacation, I suggest you just turn the water off at the main.

I'm assuming you have access to the main and the tool to turn the valve off and on.

Where I live all the water meters are in the yard near the street, or behind the house near the property line. All you have to do is remove the 15-ish-inch cover and take the tool and turn it off or on.

Depending on what you have, you might need to turn off the water heater. Consult a local plumber for his advice on that.

Best wishes to you.
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This is what I do. All the newer homes in Arizona have a valve at the front of the house that turns off the water supply to the house, but leaves on the water for the drip irrigation system.

Ok, so I've got the valve in hand and ready for install. I can get a 'standard' install but in my case, the irrigation line will not be included. One reason I'm getting the Flo device is so that I can see and monitor my irrigation usage and detect leaks (water is expensive).

Including the irrigation line will require moving the T connector from where it is now to more downstream in the main line to allow for insertion of the Flo device. This also means that one side of the irrigation line needs to be extended higher than it currently is (basically raising the backflow prevention valve assembly from about 2' above ground to about 3' above ground).

I think it's less than 2 hours of work to desolder, cut, solder and add foot of copper pipe (or whatever to extend the height).

Plumber wants $475. That sounds about 2x what I think it should cost. What say you?

If the cost is higher than it sounds like it should be, my options:
1) Flo standard install and forget monitoring irrigation. Use contractor contracted by Moen.
2) Flo install but include irrigation; pay $475 to contractor contracted by Moen.
3) Flo install, include irrigation but hire a different contractor not contracted by Moen (find my own contractor).

Any thoughts on this? I'm leaning toward #3, followed by #1 unless you think the $475 is reasonable.

Number 1 and buy a Rachio controller for the irrigation, it will tell you all you want to know about useage, time run, and connects to wifi so you see it on the app, plus if it ever rains in california, man it will warn ya and turn off, it turns off....