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Remember To Be Careful And Don't Be Kidnapped

This topic can be found at:
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/1430061574

October 01, 2020, 07:21 PM
maxwayne
Remember To Be Careful And Don't Be Kidnapped
This is a story from American Handgunner about a doctor who was targeted for kidnapping, robbery and the murder of him and his wife.

https://americanhandgunner.com...-goldstein-incident/
October 01, 2020, 07:48 PM
egregore
That's some scary shit. Despite what bloviators on the internet tell you, you just can't keep your head on a swivel and have a gun on you 100% of the time.
October 01, 2020, 07:59 PM
wcb6092
In the Winter if you have your carry gun on a belt under a long zipped up coat,you may not be able to access it very fast.In those circumstances I like to have a backup in the coat pocket.


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October 01, 2020, 08:28 PM
220-9er
Excellent article.
You may not be able to be hyper vigilant all the time but there are other habits you can use to minimize the chance of something like this happening to you.
One thing he did differently than me, whenever I am handling weapons or anything else I don’t want a stranger to see, I have doors locked and the garage door down. For example in his circumstances I would have loaded all my gear in a closed garage and would not have a visible safe in my garage.
I’ve learned to always carry a concealed gun that is on my person.
Considering his options once he was initially surprised, he did an excellent job to live through the experience.


___________________________
Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
October 02, 2020, 07:24 AM
sns3guppy
I'm not an Ayoob fan, but it's a very good article.
October 02, 2020, 07:33 AM
M-11
quote:
Originally posted by wcb6092:
In the Winter if you have your carry gun on a belt under a long zipped up coat,you may not be able to access it very fast.In those circumstances I like to have a backup in the coat pocket.


And to that end I have this for winter wear:
https://bernedirect.com/collections/mens-ccw



"Common sense is wisdom with its sleeves rolled up." -Kyle Farnsworth
"Freedom of Speech does not guarantee freedom from consequences." -Mike Rowe
"Democracies aren't overthrown, they're given away." -George Lucas
October 02, 2020, 09:13 AM
TigerDore
quote:
Originally posted by M-11

And to that end I have this for winter wear:
https://bernedirect.com/collections/mens-ccw

Thanks for that link.



.
October 02, 2020, 09:17 AM
egregore
A good point was made about "it can't happen here" and "crime only happens in poor areas." When you think about it, affluent areas are where the money is, i.e., where a robber can make a bigger haul.
October 02, 2020, 10:15 AM
snoris
These sentences in 220-9er's post bear repeating:

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:

One thing he did differently than me, whenever I am handling weapons or anything else I don’t want a stranger to see, I have doors locked and the garage door down. For example in his circumstances I would have loaded all my gear in a closed garage and would not have a visible safe in my garage.


October 02, 2020, 10:37 AM
Sportshooter
Living in a rural area can require extra vigilance, big house or not. Plus, you can assume every roofer or any other workman that comes to your house is casually taking mental inventory.
That reminds me, have the temporary yard man trim the azaleas next to the house the next time he comes.
October 02, 2020, 10:38 AM
9mm_shooter
This one happened in a "safe" neighborhood too.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-w...er/story?id=11633236

https://abcnews.go.com/US/TheL...ts/story?id=11710077

I make it a point to never let myself get into "condition white" anyway, particularly in transitional areas like parking lots, driveways, ATM foyers, and such. I assume there are psychopaths just waiting for an opportunity.

Listen to your fears, but don't live in fear.
October 02, 2020, 10:45 AM
BBMW
I don't think the perps in the article just randomly saw him loading stuff in his truck and decided to rob him then and their. They likely knew who he was, that he had a prosperous business, and thought he likely had cash and other valuables around. Because of this, he wad directly and premeditatedly targeted. They probably staked him out until they saw he was out in the open and vulnerable to an attack they could carry into a home invasion.

A broader version of what your saying would be to keep a low profile about you're level of success. However, for someone running a business, making that business successful often requires having a high profile to expose/advertise the business.

Now from a tactical standpoint, not having your garage open while you're loading a vehicle or otherwise puttering around your garage may be a good idea. But a lot of times it's not practical or comfortable (unairconditioned garages get really hot and stuffy in warm weather.)

quote:
Originally posted by snoris:
These sentences in 220-9er's post bear repeating:

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:

One thing he did differently than me, whenever I am handling weapons or anything else I don’t want a stranger to see, I have doors locked and the garage door down. For example in his circumstances I would have loaded all my gear in a closed garage and would not have a visible safe in my garage.


October 02, 2020, 10:47 AM
c1steve
I agree, no obvious safe in the garage, and if the door is open to the street he should be armed or keep his eyes open.

What these perps often do is drive around until they see a good target. They may act then, may follow an expensive car, or may come back later.


-c1steve
October 02, 2020, 11:09 AM
BBMW
One other thing I'd look at in this type of scenario would be the use of the vehicle as a weapon. If you're behind the wheel of a moving vehicle you have substantial options for using the vehicle to gain the upper hand.

A long time ago now, I went car shopping, and went for a test drive. I was driving, the sales droid was in the passenger seat. He didn't have a belt on. For some reason I decided to test the stopping power of the brakes, and just jammed them on. The sales droid ended up in crumpled compressed ball in the footwell of the passenger seat. I had my belt on, and was aware the G-forces were coming, so I never lost functionality. If this had been a kidnapping situation, I would have bought myself a few seconds of disorientation and distraction of the perp to deal with the situation. If I had a gun in the door card, I'd have time to retrieve it. I could have also just bailed out and ran.

The perps being in the back seat is a little more complicated, but still workable. I would let speed creep up, the slam into a hard left turn, likely leaving the perps in a lump against the passenger side door. See above for what would follow.
October 02, 2020, 11:13 AM
Sig209
always good to be reminded from time to time

thanks for posting that -- lots of good info in that story

--------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
October 02, 2020, 12:52 PM
VonFatman
thanks o.p.

that story was a good reminder for me to stay armed.
a friend recently retired and is at home most days.
all this silly-ness of 2020 has convinced him to add to his pocket carry...he bought a cross-draw rig so now he comfortably ccw's his full size xd with his pocket ccw.
regardless of what he does all day, he stays well armed.
October 02, 2020, 09:10 PM
kr350psd
That is a great article!!!


October 02, 2020, 11:15 PM
egregore

October 03, 2020, 04:52 AM
sns3guppy
Ayoob presents the case like a slice of nirvana, and one might almost be forgiven for being stupid enough to think it's the norm.

Shoot someone, getting off without a lawsuit and legal fees is more of a pipe dream than a reality, regardless of how righteous the shoot.

There's a reason that Ayoob is able to pimp himself out so frequently as an "expert witness." Business is good.
October 03, 2020, 09:48 AM
Sauer Kraut
Thanks for posting that. Underscores the importance of training and critical thinking under stress.