quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
They're all hybrid, just a matter of degree. They call the non-plug in models "mild hybrids" which use a 48v generator/motor. The PHEV the OP is referring to is a plug in, full hybrid.

That describes 90% of new vehicles today and the number is only going up. About the only thing that it powers is the start/stop function, and that can be always be turned off.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
What is your concern about it being a “Japan built” model? If anything, it’s going to hold up even better and have a better build quality.

Not the OP, but I think he mentioned made in Japan because he was surprised that the vehicle qualified for the $7500 federal tax credit (that will be absorbed by the manufacturer towards the lease).

Previously, the law was written in such a way that only US made vehicles using US made battery components qualified (or some combination thereof, I don't recall the specific details) qualified for the tax credit. The law was very clumsily implemented and modified over the past few years, so it appears that even a "Made in Japan" CX-9 qualifies for a full $7500 (I think because it is leased).

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
They're all hybrid, just a matter of degree. They call the non-plug in models "mild hybrids" which use a 48v generator/motor. The PHEV the OP is referring to is a plug in, full hybrid.

That describes 90% of new vehicles today and the number is only going up. About the only thing that it powers is the start/stop function, and that can be always be turned off.

Hybrids, described in short:

1) Mild-Hybrid. A (typically) 48-volt motor is swapped into where the starter motor would be. Using a very small battery, this "mild" motor just adds a little torque to the gas engine when the revs are too low to produce optimum torque. Also, helps with auto-start/stop of the gas engine at lights. Based on its position in the drive-line, the gas engine must be running for the car to move, and the mild motor can't propel the car on its own. Very specifically called a "Mild-Hybrid".

2) Gasoline-Electric Hybrid. This is your basic, 20-year-old technology. Uses a small lithium or NiMH battery and a small electric motor connected to the driveline after the egine (as opposed to a mild-hybrid, whose motor is connected to the engine itself). This type of hybrid adds power to the driveline as necessary, recovers energy from the driveline upon deceleration, and allows the car to turn off its gas engine at parking lot speeds. The battery system is a closed system, and the hybrid battery is charged from the gasoline engine or from recovering energy while the car is decelerating. The goal here is to allow a small gasoline engine to punch above its weight class by pairing an electric motor to fill in the front of the torque curve. If a manufacturer says "Hybrid", this is what they mean.

3) Plug-in Hybrid Electric. This is similar to the above, with one or more electric motors directly connected to the driveline and a separate NiMH or lithium battery. In this case, the motors are upgraded (sometimes themselves offering 100+ HP), the batteries are upgraded (allowing 20-50 miles of electric only range). The distinguishing factor, besides the size of batteries and motors, is that the batteries can be charged from a port and the electric motors by themselves will motivate the car at highway speeds. The goal here is flexibility to drive in all electric using cheap electricity from an outlet, a more efficient drive using the gas engine, and overall increased total power output. For example, a Volvo XC90 puts down 455HP and 523ft-lbs of torque, thanks to 150hp motor in addition to its 300hp gas engine. Very specifically referred to as Plug-in Hybrid Electric (PHEV).

4) Hybrid in Non-Typical Applications. So, we're seeing some of this coming along now. Rather than using hybrid tech to make modest, efficient vehicles, we're seeing it applied to max out power curves. One example of this is the new iForce "Max" powertrains on the the new Toyota Sequoia and Tundra. Toyota pairs a perfectly capable twin-turbo V6 with an electric motor. The electric motor in this instance is a 48-volt unit, but is placed between the engine and the transmission. In this configuration, the goal is to have the electric motor fill in the torque curve where the turbos v6 aren't making enough boost. The electric motor by itself only adds 48hp, which isn't enough to move the truck around on its own, but together with the turbo v6, can make 583ft lbs and 437HP. In this application, efficiency is just an afterthought.

I’m on my second leased Mazda CX-5, top of the line Turbo Signature model. My 2020 had a recall on the lift gate module. Mazda was very proactive in contacting me and quickly getting me into my dealership to replace the recalled part. My 2023 has been perfect since I picked it up 10 months ago.

The latest models have new infotainment screens that become touch screen when Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are used.

I think Mazdas are a tremendous value for what you pay compared to the competition. I’m eagerly awaiting seeing what the CX-70 will be.

I’m just coming back from a test drive of the CX-90. I drove both the inline 6 and the PHEV with the 2.5 L 4-cylinder ICE engine.

I have very mixed feelings about the vehicle:
1. It looks great, Japanese build quality, very substantial.
2. It drives marvelously: nicely weighted steering, good acceleration in both vehicles, about 6.5 seconds 0-60. It has a tight turning radius.
3. I like the secondary features such as the back-up camera with birds-eye view and very wide field of view.
4. It feels like a luxury vehicle.
5. It has nowhere near as much room inside as my wife’s 2006 Odyssey mini-van: narrower, shorter, higher floor. Legroom is good in the third row, but getting there much harder than in the Odyssey. Only fits two adults back there. Second row seats are about as comfy as the Odyssey. Driver and front passenger seats are very good.
6. Very good view out the front and sides.

Overall I feel it’s very frustrating. It’s much more fun to drive than an Odyssey but just not as practical, EXCEPT that you do have the potential for 25-30 miles all-electric range, AND all wheel drive is standard.
I imagined being able to toss bikes, kayak gear, etc. in the back easily; but although you can easily do it in the Odyssey, it feels like only half the room in the CX-90.
I know the Toyota Grand Highlander has a lot more room in the back; but no PHEV version.
The Toyota Sienna minivan is a plain hybrid with AWD. Honda will be coming out with new version of the Odyssey.
So at this point not sure what I’ll do.

You're comparing apples and rutabagas. Apologies if you know this already, but there is no SUV that will come close to having the room of a minivan with the exception of an Exxon Valdez type SUV like a Ford Excursion or Chevy Silverado.

In addition, all of those other vehicles you're comparing are Front Wheel Drive that occasionally send power to the rear wheels so 90% of their drivetrain is stuffed under the hood.

The CX-90 is Rear Wheel Drive that occasionally sends power to the front so more of the drivetrain is at the rear of the vehicle which is why it drives so much better than the other alternatives. Besides more time spent on refining the handling and suspension to be sporty without being abusive, the weight distribution is balanced closer to 50:50 instead of 70:30. The downside is you are going to lose some storage room.

If having that room is more important, then I don't think you'll be happy with anything besides a minivan.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

If having that room is more important, then I don't think you'll be happy with anything besides a minivan.

Or something like an Expedition Max or Suburban. But thats a much larger & thirstier vehicle.

I really like the look of the CX50, but the sticker shock of a higher trim was a deterrent for our budget.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I know the Toyota Grand Highlander has a lot more room in the back; but no PHEV version.

Do you have to do something right now?
The Lexus TX is going to be the Grand Highlander equivalent and will have a PHEV model.
Looking forward to checking it out. However I am afraid it will be out of our budget even if it does fall under the $7500 tax credit.
So I foresee us being in a GH Hybrid.

Black, thanks for the tip on the Lexus TX (as in “big as Texas”).
I’m afraid the luxury tax charged by Lexus compared to the Toyota GH will be excessive for us as well.
My wife and I both loved the drive of the CX-90, can’t get that out of my head. I’d be replacing a 2018 Honda Accord 2.0 Touring which still drives like a sports sedan.

I found a lease deal I couldn't pass up on a CX-90 in Premium Trim: 24 months, 12,000 miles, $5,000 down, $399/month, residual $40,000.
This includes the $7500 lease deal from Mazda which is going away Monday 10/2 if anyone is really interested.

Good for you - CX-90 would be at the top of my list considering how much I like my CX-9 but I don't drive enough to even use the 12k miles you pay for.

Being over 70 with a spotless driving record in a state like Indiana means cheap insurance. I've got a great used car connection so my mo is to buy several slick 10-15 year old cars and play with them until someone wants to buy one.

Insurance runs a little over a dollar a day for 500/250 coverage per vehicle and Indiana is cheap to license once they get past 9 years old (under $100 for reg & plates) Right now I've got 7 fun cars and have considerably less than 100k in them all.

Lineup is an 08 Honda Ridgeline bought new, a certified 2015 Toyota Sienna awd platinum, a 2014 Mini Cooper coupe for mama, 2011 Durango Citadel w/5.7L hemi, 2011 Toyota Avalon, 2011 4Runner Limited and a 2016 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring. I've got covered parking for 10 and Indiana allows 12 transactions per year before you need a dealers license.

When I get ready to sell one, often word of mouth works, otherwise I take 24 high resolution photos and go craigslist. Right now I really like them all so I'm going to keep them until something shinier comes along.