I like both of these guys, and I think they both have a lot of fans in the Forum. This was presented to me on my home page of YT based, I’m sure, on videos I have watched before. Ignore (as always) the click-bait title, this is not a “heated debate,” and Carlson does not accuse Shapiro of lying. It’s a respectful discussion about an important topic, roughly, “In a Capitalistic country should the financial benefits of technological advances (Carlson uses the example of driverless semi-trucks) always be allowed to proceed unfettered, regardless of the impact on large numbers of people?”

IMO, it seems like Mr. Shapiro has the better grounding in history and economics of the two.

I do like the tone and the respect shared by both. And I like both of them.

Do you know why at about 10:00, the video stopped showing Carlson and Shapiro, and moved abruptly to a scene from the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing?

If there's a cleaner version, might be worth removing the original linked video with one that stuck with the original topic.

Limiting technology becomes a squeezing jello situation. Some other country won't do it, will become more efficient, and eat our lunch. Look what ostensibly communist China has done, but not imposing a lot of regulations and unleashing their enormous cheap workforce?

I think the problem comes from a misunderstanding of what a job is. I was raised to understand a job as an opportunity to add value for the company, learn new skills, add more value for the company and be better compensated for the greater contribution. Some seem to think of a job as an entitlement - “I show up, they have to pay me.”

Whether you work for someone else or are self-employed, it is all about adding value. Benefits flow to those who add value.

Should we change our economy to be organized around protection jobs that are no longer valuable to society for the sake of protecting people from change, that will be the beginning of the end.

“Learn to code.” is both somewhat rude and (slightly) misses the point. There are still places where top tier coders can do well, but there are too many folks chasing too few coding jobs for it to be the bonanza it once was. “Learn to add value.” is closer to the point. Look around, see what is needed, and get busy providing it.

Wow, really disagree with Tucker on this one.

quote:

“Learn to code.” is both somewhat rude and (slightly) misses the point. There are still places where top tier coders can do well, but there are too many folks chasing too few coding jobs for it to be the bonanza it once was. “Learn to add value.” is closer to the point. Look around, see what is needed, and get busy providing it.

As the father of a mostly unemployed son with a solid MS in computer science, this is the best summary of the current job situation for software engineers I've seen.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I think the problem comes from a misunderstanding of what a job is. I was raised to understand a job as an opportunity to add value for the company, learn new skills, add more value for the company and be better compensated for the greater contribution. Some seem to think of a job as an entitlement - “I show up, they have to pay me.”

Whether you work for someone else or are self-employed, it is all about adding value. Benefits flow to those who add value.

We conservatives do ourselves damage when we talk like this. Folks who know, the average person in particular, know all too well that these issues are not black and white, meaning that there are those who work and there are those who reap the benefit for the work.

Didn't we have a number of threads where folks complained about working their fingers to the bone and not being rewarded for it? These threads would be only the beginning of dismantling these ideas.

We have to be much smarter and more realistic in presenting our ideas.

V.

As for the subject of the thread;

It's not what's right or wrong, it's what's right or wrong "right now". We are living in strange times in terms of our progress/evolution. I think we need to think really hard about what we are doing and where we are going. It's critical when dealing with a dangerous future.

For example; the question is always offered by pundits and sci-fi authors; why is there so little advanced life in the galaxy? Every species reaches a point in it's technological evolution where EVERY individual has the capability to destroy the entire civilization. Most species don't survive this point in their evolution.

Case in point; I like to dabble in AI. The work I do is done on an old machine with no modem and no wi-fi (for obvious reasons). People always howl about corporations doing work in these areas but the true danger of AI will likely come from a person like myself who is not as careful. We could already be at a point where one person could theoretically destroy everything.

It is something to consider. Some planning and thought about what we are doing could be in order.

V.

Will watch the video in a bit but my wife, who has turned into a geek....she's even learning Python, have been having an ongoing conversation abiout this.

With AI many jobs, both white and blue collar, will be going away in the next 10-20 years. What do we do then....

Listening to a talk with Jordan Peterson and he claimed that 20-30%% of the populace had an IQ below 90 some the reality is that they cannot learn to do anything beyond menial tasks.

So a large percentage of our population will have limited employment options in the future, what happens when a large percentage of the jobs in the service sector go away due to technology.....we are just seeing kiosks take hold at fast food places...what happens when the machines can build your Big MAc or your frapchino?

How do you deal with the possibility of an unemployment rate of 20-30%?

I think at that point things start to get very sporty....crime rate rises, deep poverty rises society breaks down in some areas.

I joke that AI will be the end of us....

Does this mean I want to turn Amish .....not at all but I am very leery about what the future holds.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:

quote:

“Learn to code.” is both somewhat rude and (slightly) misses the point. There are still places where top tier coders can do well, but there are too many folks chasing too few coding jobs for it to be the bonanza it once was. “Learn to add value.” is closer to the point. Look around, see what is needed, and get busy providing it.

As the father of a mostly unemployed son with a solid MS in computer science, this is the best summary of the current job situation for software engineers I've seen.

My son just changed his major to CS so I looked at the data on job outlook....it shows a 19% increase in the amount of jobs and the outlook going forward looks quite good. It does say most enter with at least a masters though.

I know my company is offer a signing bonus of $7K for data scientists

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:

quote:

“Learn to code.” is both somewhat rude and (slightly) misses the point. There are still places where top tier coders can do well, but there are too many folks chasing too few coding jobs for it to be the bonanza it once was. “Learn to add value.” is closer to the point. Look around, see what is needed, and get busy providing it.

As the father of a mostly unemployed son with a solid MS in computer science, this is the best summary of the current job situation for software engineers I've seen.

With all due respect, I have been in the computer field for 35 years -- back before they called it "IT" -- and the most creative and innovative people I've ever met and worked with have no background in computer sciences. Schools are churning out stultified, rigid and uncreative thinkers. Just because you know how to write code doesn't mean you can. Or should.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:

quote:

“Learn to code.” is both somewhat rude and (slightly) misses the point. There are still places where top tier coders can do well, but there are too many folks chasing too few coding jobs for it to be the bonanza it once was. “Learn to add value.” is closer to the point. Look around, see what is needed, and get busy providing it.

As the father of a mostly unemployed son with a solid MS in computer science, this is the best summary of the current job situation for software engineers I've seen.

With all due respect, I have been in the computer field for 35 years -- back before they called it "IT" -- and the most creative and innovative people I've ever met and worked with have no background in computer sciences. Schools are churning out stultified, rigid and uncreative thinkers. Just because you know how to write code doesn't mean you can. Or should.

This is very true, my wife is leading a team that is supposed to be building tools for "the Business" (we should have outsourced but....) and daily she is frustrated by the lack of creativity and inability for her coders to see outside their world.

As mentioned above...you have to add value, that means "just coding" is not enough. Especially with coders coming out of Asia and Eastern Europe with pay rates a quarter of what coders are being paid here....it will only get worst as AI takes their place.

I have been telling my son he needs to be able to bridge the gap between the coders and the business....this is what I see as the largest issue....no one speaks Geek and Operations.

It's like if you were to order a steak but get chicken....and the cook tells you this is what you really need.