quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Then again I prefer bikes that don't make my ass look any fatter than it is...

This is why I'm trying to fit saddle bags on the LiveWire!

I’m not saying SV owners have much in common with those considering a Bronx but rather I’m pointing out the fact that the new 975 motor from HD is about on par with a Japanese 996 v twin from the early 2000’s.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
I’m not saying SV owners have much in common with those considering a Bronx but rather I’m pointing out the fact that the new 975 motor from HD is about on par with a Japanese 996 v twin from the early 2000’s.

It's vaporware. You have no idea what the specs are on an engine that doesn't exist.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
I’m not saying SV owners have much in common with those considering a Bronx but rather I’m pointing out the fact that the new 975 motor from HD is about on par with a Japanese 996 v twin from the early 2000’s.

I get what you are saying,and it makes sense,
just trying to make a point that people who buy used bikes aren't the target. Winning the HP race isn't necessary to sell on the showroom except for a few gear head crazy people. I'm one of those crazy gear heads btw. But I'd never consider buying a Bronx or Metric bike.

Same reason you won't find a LIvewire in my garage, not just the $, because if it was an E-Cruiser like a Dyna-softail style laid back bike I'd snap one up pronto.

Estimates I've read are in the 150 HP range, more than enough to get you into trouble...

IMO Harley is doing what it needs to do, actually they should have done this earlier, update and broaden their line while at the same time keeping their traditional line of bikes.

Around 1980 BMW's board of directors were deciding whether to do away with the motorcycle division which had become unprofitable with its dated line of air cooled, opposed twin motorcycles. While the cars were known for world class handling and performance the motorcycles were known as comfortable but underperforming compared to the competition. Thankfully the board decided to keep the motorcycle division and even infuse money for R&D to modernize the line. By 1984 they had an entirely new and innovative water cooled, fuel injected, 4-cylinder motorcycle K100RS. Within two years they had a standard K100, tourer K100RT, a 3 cylinder K75 along with K75S and K75RT. With the new lineup there was no need for the old air cooled, opposed twin R bikes so they announced the R bikes would be discontinued with the last edition versions sold in 1984.
There was enough of an outcry that BMW changed their mind and kept their traditional boxer R line to sell along side the new K bikes, much to the dismay of those who just invested in a 1984 "Last Edition". The R series got needed improvements such as a single sided swing arm and a unique version was launched the R80GS adventure bike, the great grandfather of YoopeSig's R1200GS and the bike Harley is imitating with its Pan America.

So in 1980 BMW only offered a hand full of R models, all utilizing essentially the same engine. Today they are selling everything from single cylinder dual sport and scooters to 6 cylinder touring bikes, they've come a long way. Harley now seems to be in a similar situation to what BMW motorcycle division was in the early 80's. Only Harley doesn't have the benefit of a profitable car division. We will see, a lot is riding on the Pan America.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Harley now seems to be in a similar situation to what BMW motorcycle division was in the early 80's. Only Harley doesn't have the benefit of a profitable car division. We will see, a lot is riding on the Pan America.

Harley actually faced a similar decision back in the early 80s itself. They were developing a line of modular inline water-cooled engines (google Project Nova for the whole story) concurrently with the Evolution V Twin engine. The short version of the story is that the company didn't have the resources to develop and launch both engines, so they bet on the next generation of the traditional air-cooled V-Twin, which played a huge role in the massive growth of HD sale in the 90s, 2000s and into the present day. In hindsight it's hard to argue that it wasn't the right decision at the time, but it's interesting to contemplate what might have been (or not) had HD taken that fork in the road.

You're right, the Evo saved the company and allowed them to prosper. Of course hindsight is 20-20 but I just wish they had not made so many bad decisions over the years wasting that money.

And if the Pan America is a success, then bust out a 750 or 850 Pan America bike that would appeal to people who dont want the full size PA. And at a reduced price, too.
Go after the KLR / XR / V-Strom / Tenere market.
The Tenere 700 lists for less than 10K. Well, $9999 anyway. Thats a deal for an ADV bike.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:

....The Tenere 700 lists for less than 10K. Well, $9999 anyway. Thats a deal for an ADV bike.

That's what they charged me for my Tenere' and I find it to be a great bike especially for the price.

Too bad HD developed the all new Street 750 as a cruiser rather than a KLR beater. The mid size adventure market like the Tenere' 700, KTM 790 Adventure, Honda CB500X, etc. is strong now.

So HD went through the trouble of developing a new 975 liquid cooled twin only to not use it? The Bronx may be DOA but HD is very likely going to make something borderline “sporty” with that engine. If they don’t they are damn fools. I sincerely hope the rumors of a flat tracker or scrambler are true.

Stickman I believe the new 1250 and 975 are themselves the same series of modular engines.

The Pan America was released to the public today.

$17,319 for the Pan America 1250
$19,999 for the Pan America 1250 Special

The Adaptive Ride Height is nice standard option on the Special.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mkueffer,

Hoping HD doesn't succumb to COVID and not show up at Daytona, that would suck... If they do come then I'd love to ride the Pan America....

Here is the link to the HD Reveal of the Pan America,

Click here, it's the link

It has taken me a little over two years, but I was finally able to plant my butt in the seat of a 2023 H-D Pan American RA1250S! The local Harley Dealer went out of their way to get the deal done. Now I dont have to ride all the way to DePere WI for service. The weather was kinda crappy so I could not spend a lot of time on it.
Just in time for the Yoop riding season.
And apologies for the resurrection of an old thread.

Well, enjoy! (We need pictures of your new ride!)

flashguy

That's awesome, congratulations! I have a buddy who is thinking really hard about a Pan American.

That just seems like an ideal bike to own in the Yoop.

Congrats! pictures and a ride report!

A buddy of mine has a Pan American in addition to a Triumph, Ural with a sidecar (dog hauler), Indian and a newer RoadGlide.
Said the Pan American is his favorite and the most fun to ride.

Congratulations Yooper! After you get some time on it I'll be looking forward to your ride review and how it compares with the BMW 1200/50 GS you had?
From what I understand the earlier bikes (2021 and 2022) had some electrical gremlins that HD updates seems to have sorted so your 2023 should be good to go.
Good to hear the dealer worked with you, back when I tried to buy one they wouldn't.

Link

Since we revived the thread, here's a new offering from HD for 2023 The Electra Glide Highway King,

Basically a fluffed up road king, which is the lightest of the heavy FL touring line, and it's been dressed up to look like the original Electra Glide from 1968.

White Bags with rails, Solo seat, custom two tone paint, matching color tinted windshield, wire wheels. If nostalgia is your thing, the new Highway king is it.

Now the problem, they have two colors, HI-FI Orange (1000 produced) and Hi-Fi Magenta (750) so expect dealer gouging on prices to be strong, I'm guessing $5K to $10K depending on the market over MSRP, with the higher leaning toward the Magenta which is lower volume and IMHO better looking.

Love or hate HD, it's clear that they knocked it out of the park with these two bikes,