This one really has me puzzled. The man was threatening to harm himself...no one else. Why shoot him?

http://www.startribune.com/pol...d-robbery/465508913/

In the eyes of some, the Minneapolis police officers who shot and critically wounded a suicidal man after he refused to drop his knife during a tense standoff in an interview room showed tremendous restraint in the face of grave danger and acted appropriately — heroically even.

But to others, the cases raises some complicated questions about whether the officers acted properly when they drew their guns and fired on a man who appeared to only be a threat to himself.

The man who they shot, 18-year-old Marcus Fischer, lay in a hospital bed Wednesday recovering from wounds both self-inflicted and after being struck by several police bullets. Later that day, prosecutors charged him in connection with a shooting that led to his arrest.

See my CUT.

Riiigghhht...because being inside a small interview room with a suicidal guy holding an knife isn't at all dangerous to the anyone else in the room.

That article is so fucktarded, how could anyone glean any perspective from it?

They had to shoot him to save him.

j/k

Sounds like a good shoot to me.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:

Haha. Hold it men, he's not bluffing!

Why didn't they just shoot the knife out of his hand?

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Why didn't they just shoot the knife out of his had?

If they had used a bullet to remove the knife from his possession, they'd need to shoot him in the have.

Once he dropped it, it was in his had.

And you need to keep shooting the had until it is a have not.

I see they used a Taser first but it didn't stop him stabbing himself. Police should probably have saved their ammo and just let him bleed out. The scum had had a busy week, prior to the suicide attempt.

quote:

According to authorities, Fischer arranged to buy a Kel-Tec 9-millimeter handgun from a 21-year-old Elk River man, who agreed to meet him on the afternoon of Dec. 13. But after the man and a friend let Fischer hold the gun, he pulled out his own firearm and said that the Kel-Tec was now his, prosecutors said.

As he left, he shot the Elk River man once in the chest

As to lessons learned, at least they are thinking about how to prevent this sort of thing going forward.

quote:

The incident also raised questions about why police didn’t discover the knife Fischer was carrying.

Department sources say they plan to put metal-detector wands outside interview rooms at police headquarters and in every precinct house across the city. Suspects and witnesses would now go through screening before being interviewed

"... a man who appeared to only be a threat to himself."


If a man is to a point that he will kill himself, he likely cares little for the affairs of strangers.

Not always, but pretty good bet.

I have no trouble with things that end the way they did, with the exception of the hand wringing and "what iffing" from the "spectators".

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
"... a man who appeared to only be a threat to himself."


If a man is to a point that he will kill himself, he likely cares little for the affairs of strangers.

Not always, but pretty good bet.

I have no trouble with things that end the way they did, with the exception of the hand wrirnging and "what iffing" from the "spectators".

In paramedic training I was told to remember a potential suicide is preparing to commit a homicide.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
If a man is to a point that he will kill himself, he likely cares little for the affairs of strangers.

Not always, but pretty good bet.

I believe you would be wrong in the majority of cases. I believe the exact opposite is more likely to be true.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
If a man is to a point that he will kill himself, he likely cares little for the affairs of strangers.

Not always, but pretty good bet.

I believe you would be wrong in the majority of cases. I believe the exact opposite is more likely to be true.

I'm a student of violent behavior and a protege of experts in the field. Believe what you like, but you are incorrect. Suicidal subjects are very dangerous and the general populace's lack of understanding in this area is even more so.

How many actually suicidal people (those being different from folks with murderous intent) have ever (physically) hurt someone else, even in, say, just the last 20yrs?

Given the general lack of quality data and statistical analysis with respect to police and shootings and suicide in general, how would one even know?

Who can say, with any reasonable degree of accuracy, whether the suicidal person is a real threat to others even 1% of the time, much less 5%, or 50%?

Anyone?

Is there some amazing research on the topic somewhere?

I have my doubts.

quote:

“The question really is, given the circumstances and what you’re dealing with, did you exhaust other options?” said Quinn, a former Minneapolis sergeant who trains police departments across the country. “If you look at the recent history of the Minneapolis Police Department, and given some of the shootings that they’ve been involved in recently, it gives you the feeling that cops are being very quick to shoot.”

Still, he added that officers have a moral obligation to intervene when someone’s life is at risk, while weighing their own safety and that of others.

This is kind of a no-win situation for the officers. They can't very well just stand there and let the guy bleed out, they'd be crucified for it. The taser didn't work and if they'd tried to go hands-on with the guy he would possibly have injured (or worse) one or more officers. Same risk if they'd brought in a dog. So really, what other option did they have? Pepper spray, maybe, but in an enclosed space that could very well backfire on them or affect bystanders (in which case they'd probably be sued).

Considering that he was charged with a shooting that brought the officers to arrest him to begin with, significantly changes the story. This is simply bad reporting.

This should be a story about a guy who is trying to evade arrest with the old "I'll kill myself" ploy and it failed.

To be honest I'm getting weary of people telling emergency workers that they need to find a better way. If you're so smart, figure it out, test it, employ in in real world situations beta testing, then see if your idea would even work or just get you or someone else killed.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:
I see they used a Taser first but it didn't stop him stabbing himself. Police should probably have saved their ammo and just let him bleed out. The scum had had a busy week, prior to the suicide attempt.

quote:

According to authorities, Fischer arranged to buy a Kel-Tec 9-millimeter handgun from a 21-year-old Elk River man, who agreed to meet him on the afternoon of Dec. 13. But after the man and a friend let Fischer hold the gun, he pulled out his own firearm and said that the Kel-Tec was now his, prosecutors said.

As he left, he shot the Elk River man once in the chest

As to lessons learned, at least they are thinking about how to prevent this sort of thing going forward.

quote:

The incident also raised questions about why police didn’t discover the knife Fischer was carrying.

Department sources say they plan to put metal-detector wands outside interview rooms at police headquarters and in every precinct house across the city. Suspects and witnesses would now go through screening before being interviewed

So they never heard of a physical search?!?!?!?!

Damn.

ehh..he is alive. If he would have slit his throat he might not be here or he could have killed a officer. "didn't APEAR to be a threat"