Thinking about getting a new and improved vest or plate carrier and plates.

Thinking at least Level III

Don't know what your budget is? After way too many hours researching, I am happy with Crye JPC and Spartan Armor multi-curve (Steel)

plate/]https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/ar550-body-armor-single-plate/[/URL]

Notes:
- Got a great deal on a v1 JPC so that's why I was able to swing the Crye... BUT, unlike my old Army issue IOTV it has limited straps inside the plate "Sleeve" meaning for a large PC you need large plates or they will just slide to the bottom. (In the Army it was VERY common to pair say a large IOTV with medium plates to reduce weight/bulk and increase mobility and comfort.) I have no idea about the Current generation of the Crye JPC

- USGI ceramic plates are bulky AF. My days of humping for miles and/or 8hrs+ in full battle rattle are over, so I'm ok with a little extra weight for the steel. (I also wear it as a fitness thing).

- Light and stretchy cumber bun is AWESOME, sooo much more comfortable vs USGI

- I still miss my old [Aimpoint?] IBA it was way more comfortable than current IOTV stuff and on/off was easier. The surplus ones I could find were really ragged and/or seriously overpriced. I would rather have an excellent condition IBA than what I have now

I've been happy with my ceramic plates and carrier from Shellback

Plates by Brad Benzing, on Flickr

Plates are about what you can afford. Top of the line is Angel Armor. But they are expensive.

But, you wind up with special purpose rated plates that weight around 5 pounds front and back.

After several decades of combat and non combat environments, I would suggest nearly no civilian needs plates.

I've lived and worked in some of the most austere regions, and plates have only hindered me.

In the US, unless you are clearing very confined spaces for a living, they are pretty useless.

The best ballistic plates is cover, understand true cover, and getting to cover is far more valuable than a plate that really only covers your upper thoracic at very specific angles.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Plates are about what you can afford. Top of the line is Angel Armor. But they are expensive.

But, you wind up with special purpose rated plates that weight around 5 pounds front and back.

It appears from their website that they are first responder and private security only. From the FAQ at the bottom of the rifle plates page:

“Who can purchase your rifle plates?
At this time, we serve our First Responder and Military heroes, including Public Safety, Law Enforcement, EMS, Fire and Private Security clientele. If you have a unique need or specific business opportunity that warrants consideration, please contact us at sales@angelarmor.com.“

I was poking around trying to find pricing to see how expensive expensive is (idle curiosity, not looking for plates) and never did find prices. Perhaps my website searching sucks, and perhaps if you have to ask you can’t afford it.

Don't bother with steel plates. Frag/spalling is real, and will kill you, even with a coating or bag intended to help minimize it. It does you no good to stop a bullet with your steel plate if you then bleed out from spalling splattering out into your jugular/femoral/brachial arteries.

You can get decent but heavy/bulky ceramic, polyethelene, or hybrid ceramic/PE plates for around the same price as steel, without those spalling issues.

But if you're serious about wearing and using your plates, pay the extra money to go with a fancier but thinner and lighter plate. The weight difference is often dramatic, for just a few hundred bucks more. Nobody wants to wear 15-20 pounds worth of plates for any length of time, just to try to save a few hundred bucks.

Multi curve plates are much more comfortable than single curve plates. Worth the extra money there too.

Look for a NIJ certified plate. Not every manufacturer who claims their plates are Level 3 or 4 are actually certified as Level 3 or 4. You can cross reference the manufacturers claims against the NIJ model list.

Level 3 is the minimum for hard rifle plates, but Level 3 won't stop many of the most common rounds like many .223/5.56 loadings. Level 4 will, but will either be much thicker/heavier or more expensive than Level 3. Many/most armor manufacturers offer some flavor of unofficial "3+" rated plates, often referred to as "Special Threat" plates. These are rated to stop everything a Level 3 will, plus many/most of these common .223/5.56 loads too. Sort of an in-between/compromise option if you don't want to go all the way to Level 4.

The NIJ is in the process of rolling out an updated testing/rating/certification system to better cover these common rifle rounds and have an official "3.5" style step in between, but I don't think it's in use yet.

Also look for standalone plates, not "ICW" plates- In Conjunction With. ICW plates only have their rating when worn with an additional soft armor (Kevlar) backer. Standalone plates are rated on just the plates themselves. ICW plates are less common these days.


Read up on properly sizing and wearing plates. Hard plates are not intended to cover your entire torso, and it's entirely possible to have plates that are too big, which affects your mobility, flexibility, and shooting ability. They're just intended to cover the vital structures at the center of your torso, roughly nipple to nipple and from the sternum notch at the top to an inch or so above the bottom of your ribcage. Most folks will fall into the 10x12 plate territory, or SAPI Medium to Large. Very, very few folks will need 8x10, 11x14, or SAPI Small or XL. You can find measurement guides and even printable templates online to help you decide which plate size is right for you.

And plate carriers are sized based on the size of your plates, not the size of the wearer. Don't go ordering an XL carrier just because you wear XL shirts... Rather, Medium carriers are for Medium/10x12 plates, not folks who wear Medium shirts. Most carriers' cummerbunds and shoulder straps will then be able to adjust to fit just about anyone, within reason.

I’ve been getting emails for “Ukrainian over run special” Level IV plates for $90/ea or 4/$300 from Liberal Tears. Plates are 10x12” (9.5 x 11.5”) shooters cut/multi-curve.

Definitely piquing my curiosity for SHTF scenario and out of concern for future inability to legally buy in the Socialist Republic of Washington.

For the price, it seems like pretty inexpensive worst case protection or even cheap exercise enhancement.

Found a pretty in-depth independent review that raise some concern about .30 AP effectiveness, but they seem to have no problem soaking up 10 rounds of 5.56.


Realistically, IIIA would probably suffice for “legitimate” threats, but I love a bargain. Honestly, spending $350 or so isn’t a big deal to me but going north of $500 for something with only slight real-world chance of “need” quickly becomes a no-go.



Anyone tried these or looked into them? General thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by sooma:
After several decades of combat and non combat environments, I would suggest nearly no civilian needs plates.

I've lived and worked in some of the most austere regions, and plates have only hindered me.

In the US, unless you are clearing very confined spaces for a living, they are pretty useless.

The best ballistic plates is cover, understand true cover, and getting to cover is far more valuable than a plate that really only covers your upper thoracic at very specific angles.

What you say is probably true, but I live by the motto of better safe than sorry. I would rather have ballistic plates AND cover than cover only. Who knows what the future holds and it is good to be prepared if one can afford it. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it is my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I’ve been getting emails for “Ukrainian over run special” Level IV plates for $90/ea or 4/$300 from Liberal Tears. Plates are 10x12” (9.5 x 11.5”) shooters cut/multi-curve.

For the price, it seems like pretty inexpensive worst case protection or even cheap exercise enhancement.

These are Highcomm 4SAS4 ceramic plates. (Highcomm makes them, Chase Tactical brands and sells them, and then places like Tactical Shit/Liberals Tears resell them.)

They're an older design from a decade or more ago, and pretty heavy at 7.5 pounds apiece/15 pounds for a set. But they're decent, especially for the price. They're Multicurve for added comfort, they're not steel, and they're not 1+ inches thick and over 8 pounds each like some of the other cheap ceramic plates are.

They are NIJ certified, just under an older rating system that was updated ~8 years ago with a slightly more rigorous set of tests that newer designs go through to get certified. (NIJ 0101.06 is the current standard, whereas these were certified pre-2018ish under the 0101.04 standard. And the NIJ is about to go to 0101.07 in 2027 with even newer criteria.)

If you want a set, don't get them from Liberals Tears, where they're $226.74 shipped for a set of 2. Instead, you can get them directly from Chase Tactical at $99/each, but with free shipping as well as 18% off with coupon Irish18. Makes them $163.92 shipped for a set of two, or $81.96 apiece delivered to your door, which is likely the best bang-for-the-buck in inexpensive non-steel armor right now. https://www.chasetactical.com/...0x12-00-shooters-cut

Good info Rouge!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

These are Highcomm 4SAS4 ceramic plates. (Highcomm makes them, Chase Tactical brands and sells them, and then places like Tactical Shit/Liberals Tears resell them.)

***SNIP*** https://www.chasetactical.com/...0x12-00-shooters-cut

Rogue - The same plate will work for the back plate or that will be a different cut & shaped plate?

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

These are Highcomm 4SAS4 ceramic plates. (Highcomm makes them, Chase Tactical brands and sells them, and then places like Tactical Shit/Liberals Tears resell them.)

They're an older design from a decade or more ago, and pretty heavy at 7.5 pounds apiece/15 pounds for a set. But they're decent, especially for the price. They're Multicurve for added comfort, they're not steel, and they're not 1+ inches thick and over 8 pounds each like some of the other cheap ceramic plates are…

Thanks for the info! Pretty much all in line with the YouTube review I watched. Pointed out the same things re older spec, etc. the main hit on the review is they can be damage by “impact” like diving onto the floor possibly fracturing the ceramic and allowing failure with AP rounds. The reviewer does a “drop test” as part of his reviews and when he initially expressed concerns about failure, the company explained the older standard doesn’t have the drop test criteria (or something to that effect) he re-tested and they seemed to perform as good or better than the older spec.

A single .308 AP round with 5 rounds of 5.56 follow up and no backside deformation seemed pretty impressive!



Also big thanks for the coupon code and free shipping info. Damn, Liberal Tears wanted $90 shipping

I have two ordered and on the way for less than LT price of two before tax/shipping.


If nothing else, I can wear them walking for higher impact exercise.

I don't have the depth of real-world experience that sooma does, but I agree with him.

I have plates, but they don't get frequent use in any sort of training, because I don't think, based on my limited experience, that they're worth the weight/bulk/discomfort in most of my potential circumstances.

I keep them in a slick "low-pro" carrier.

https://www.first-spear.com/sl...e-carrier--sapi-cut/

The carrier is so minimalist that my chest rig requires no special adjustment when worn over it.

I consider the plate carrier in a strictly CQB use-case, as sooma implied. Combat in a building interior is something I periodically train for, but will ultimately go out of my way to avoid. That said, I expect the plates to realistically get little to no use.

All that is to say that you might consider a plate that won't spall, as Rogue suggested, because the low bulk factor of steel isn't a big deal, because use will be so minimal. Also, consider building your load carriage rig on a harness of some sort, as opposed to a plate carrier.

I went through a tacticool phase, not saying that’s what yall are doing. However, I don’t own any now. In my estimation I’d have a family of 3-4 minimum with me, I would want to carry 15 more pounds of food or water instead. And after having used 28# of plates to do cardio training I don’t want ANY extra weight on me in a situation where calories would also likely be limited.

If I was a normal guy who did a lot of training or range officer time I would definitely use some low profile protection there.

Otto's point about extra load carriage is ultimately what it boils down to. We can carry more useful stuff, more comfortably, without armor.

quote:

Originally posted by TXLe:
Rogue - The same plate will work for the back plate or that will be a different cut & shaped plate?

Same plate.

While you can get away with using a more full cut plate and/or a single curve plate in the back if you have to, generally you would buy the plates in a set of 2 and have the same plate in front and back.

I purchased Stopshot but Highcomm has an excellent rep. Fortunately I have never had to use mine so hard to speculate how effective they are. Gotta trust the experts.

I like spartan armor.

They stopped selling the plates I have to non LE.

That made me angry. I need another 2 sets, but I'm looking elsewhere

I've had a difficult time finding an elsewhere.

I might be able to convince angel to sell to me, but again, companies that don't believe that citizens should own good armor, shouldn't be supported.

I've got some older steel plates as a spare set. They're at least 3 times as heavy and won't perform as well. I'd consider them for a stationary position. Maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I’ve been getting emails for “Ukrainian over run special” Level IV plates for $90/ea or 4/$300 from Liberal Tears. Plates are 10x12” (9.5 x 11.5”) shooters cut/multi-curve.

For the price, it seems like pretty inexpensive worst case protection or even cheap exercise enhancement.

These are Highcomm 4SAS4 ceramic plates. (Highcomm makes them, Chase Tactical brands and sells them, and then places like Tactical Shit/Liberals Tears resell them.)

They're an older design from a decade or more ago, and pretty heavy at 7.5 pounds apiece/15 pounds for a set. But they're decent, especially for the price. They're Multicurve for added comfort, they're not steel, and they're not 1+ inches thick and over 8 pounds each like some of the other cheap ceramic plates are.

They are NIJ certified, just under an older rating system that was updated ~8 years ago with a slightly more rigorous set of tests that newer designs go through to get certified. (NIJ 0101.06 is the current standard, whereas these were certified pre-2018ish under the 0101.04 standard. And the NIJ is about to go to 0101.07 in 2027 with even newer criteria.)

If you want a set, don't get them from Liberals Tears, where they're $226.74 shipped for a set of 2. Instead, you can get them directly from Chase Tactical at $99/each, but with free shipping as well as 18% off with coupon Irish18. Makes them $163.92 shipped for a set of two, or $81.96 apiece delivered to your door, which is likely the best bang-for-the-buck in inexpensive non-steel armor right now. https://www.chasetactical.com/...0x12-00-shooters-cut

I decided to order a pair to put into my old Interceptor multi-threat body armor system . Mine has all of the panels such as neck, arms, sides, and groin. Yes, it is heavy as shit but I would not be wearing it in some bug out situation. To me, it is good to have along with a Kevlar helmet. I have light ballistic vests for something where I am mobile. I plan to upgrade the plates in it and put the old plates in a new lighter carrier so my wife has a carrier with plates.

The current plates I have are in very good condition and kept indoors. These are the current plates and I assume they are level III: