N.B.: I don't mean to be rude: But unless you're an electrician or NEC expert, please forego comment. Thank you.

In striking up a conversation with an electrician in a local HD, I discovered that when you put cable, NM-B, in my case, in conduit you have to de-rate the circuit. In one conduit I would have ended-up with 3 x 12/2 + 2 x 14/2. So conduit was out.

Then I remembered I had some of this stuff: Panduit Wiring Duct

Looks like this:



I theorized that slots, allowing easy airflow, would obviate the necessity to de-rate. But then it occurred to me that maybe this use of this product in this application would not meet code requirements. It is UL, etc. rated.

So what says the SF electrician brain trust: Legitimate or not?

I can still easily swap those out for these (which I just discovered), instead:



(As a side note: Six outlets plus a switch and eight lights on three dimmer circuits, plus extensive UTP cabling, in a 10-1/2 x 11-1/2 ft. room, riddled with ductwork, makes for an interesting wiring challenge .)

Why are you putting Romex in conduit? It's illegal.

Got pics? What are you trying to do?

In some cases it’s legal per code to run it in conduit, but it has to be de-rated because of a lack of proper heat dissipation. If you’re using a conduit you should just go ahead and buy THHN conductors.

Like skins stated, what are you trying to do?

quote:

Why are you putting Romex in conduit? It's illegal.

[johnny_carson] I did not know that [/johnny_carson]

Running a crap-ton of 12/2 and 14/2 under floor joists in a basement remodel.

Problem is ductwork. Specifically: Heating ducts. Insufficient room underneath and I don't like the idea of running NM over something that gets warm, in an enclosed space, in the wintertime. So I'm obliged to run the cable on the bottoms of the floor joists. (It'll be code, because there'll be a dropped ceiling.)

I didn't want to have a row of individual staples up to five wide. Not to mention having to hammer in all those staples

From a comment, elsewhere, I think this stuff qualifies as a "sleeve." If so: I may have been right about the de-rating question, at least.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Why are you putting Romex in conduit? It's illegal.

Not according to the electrician to whom I spoke a couple days ago, but you do have to take de-rating into account.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Running a crap-ton of 12/2 and 14/2 under floor joists in a basement remodel.

Problem is ductwork. Specifically: Heating ducts. Insufficient room underneath and I don't like the idea of running NM over something that gets warm, in an enclosed space, in the wintertime. So I'm obliged to run the cable on the bottoms of the floor joists. (It'll be code, because there'll be a dropped ceiling.)

I didn't want to have a row of individual staples up to five wide. Not to mention having to hammer in all those staples

From a comment, elsewhere, I think this stuff qualifies as a "sleeve." If so: I may have been right about the de-rating question, at least.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Why are you putting Romex in conduit? It's illegal.

Not according to the electrician to whom I spoke a couple days ago, but you do have to take de-rating into account.

Got pics? Standard way to do it is to drill through the joists and pull cables through the holes.

You can sleeve Romex for physical protection. You also can run it in conduit under some circumstances, but local AHJ may say no to it. You also if allowed would need to use widest part of Romex for CSA (cross section area) in conduit fill calc along with using chart for more than three conductors. You conduit will be yuge.

I'd drill it if possible, if not run it wherever a bulkhead would be if the basement ever got drywalled. You are better off running them in separate runs if you have to strap to bottoms of joists if you later desire to finish with drywall you can then notch joists and install kick plates.

Easiest way would be to use stack-its (brand name for one of the red cable holders you posted).

Lot of ways to skin this cat.

I have used this Arlington raceway system on several jobs the last few years.

https://www.electriduct.com/Ar...-Support-System.html

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Got pics? Standard way to do it is to drill through the joists and pull cables through the holes.

Here ya go:







Change the "20pct" in the URL of each photo to 30% if you want a somewhat bigger photo.

The yellow is 12/2 for a 20A wall outlet branch and the white is 14/2 for a 15A lighting circuit.

The left-hand side will have 3 x 12/2 + 3 x 14/2 (correction from earlier statement). The right-hand side 2 x 12/2 and 3 x 14/2. Even with that, there's quite a bit of room in them. I doubt they're more than 1/4 full.

(The stuff in the foreground is network, alarm, phone and other low-voltage data cabling.)

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I'd drill it if possible, ...

I'm doing that where I can, but, for much of the space it's not feasible. Too much ductwork in the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
... if not run it wherever a bulkhead would be if the basement ever got drywalled.

It will be drywalled and a dropped ceiling installed. The area you're looking at is in what will be a lower part of the dropped ceiling, to get under the ductwork. (You can see how low by the hot air register.)

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Easiest way would be to use stack-its (brand name for one of the red cable holders you posted).

I've got the stack-its if that Panduit stuff is not legit.

You spent way too much time thinking about it. I would have just stapled it. I was assuming you meant lay in grid ceiling when you said dropped. If it's being drywalled over, it doesn't matter how you do it.

Why do you have junction boxes? You can't drywall over those. There shouldn't be any junction boxes. Feed in outlet, out to next. Same with lights. The recess or outlet boxes themselves are your junction boxes.

The raceway still needs to comply with raceway bundling derating.

Not a household electrician, but most of the yachts I manage/maintain have the Panduit wiring duct through the entire boat. They run either DC or AC wiring through it and the wiring is not de-rated or up-sized when run in the Panduit ducts and usually they are chaulk full of wires to where you can barely get the lid back on them. Generally the wiring bundle is cable tied every 6-8" inside of the Panduit wiring duct.

That being said, for what you want to do, I would run romex and secure it with cushioned cable clamps. They sell them at lowes in all of the different sizes, they're very quick with a screw gun and one self tapping screw secures the wiring bundle (at each rafter or whatever). Here are some from Amazon, but lowe's sells them in every size labeled "steel suspension clamp".

https://www.amazon.com/Electri...84413735793214&psc=1

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
You spent way too much time thinking about it. ... If it's being drywalled over, it doesn't matter how you do it.

That's the way I roll, Skins. I almost always over-engineer.

You ain't seen the half of it

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Why do you have junction boxes? You can't drywall over those. There shouldn't be any junction boxes.

There won't be any rock over junction boxes. Just suspended ceiling under them.

For the outlets I have one because I wanted to limit the amount of NM I was running behind the rock and into each outlet box. The outside walls look like this:



That's a 1x3" grid over 2" foamboard. It makes for a convenient, but shallow wiring channel. The boxes are all shallow boxes, as a result of that.

The ceiling lights are all going to be these: Designer Ultra Slim 4 in. Oil Rubbed Bronze Integrated LED Recessed Kit

Though the knock-outs and internal connectors allow for it, I didn't care to stuff two runs of NM into those flimsy metal boxes they supply.

There will be three individually-controlled light circuits: One with four lights and the other two with two each.

Also box appears to be 1.5" deep which can only hold 4 #12 RX cables or 5 #14.

I have to say, they don't do construction around here like that. That is one interesting method.

So you ceiling will be a combination of drywall and suspended grid?

quote:

The ceiling lights are all going to be these: Designer Ultra Slim 4 in. Oil Rubbed Bronze Integrated LED Recessed Kit

Those are cool, I've used them supplied by customers before. If I was going to use or supplly them I'd use the Lithonia because I'm familiar with their products. I've never heard of Globe before Home Depot started carrying them five minutes ago. I'd buy a couple spares just in case. LEDs don't last as long as advertised and they may not make that exact same model next week.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Also box appears to be 1.5" deep which can only hold 4 #12 RX cables or 5 #14.

Thanks for the catch! I'll replace it tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I have to say, they don't do construction around here like that. That is one interesting method.

You mean the outside walls? Got that idea from this:


The advantage is you get a 100% vapour barrier. (I couldn't get the tongue and groove version, so I taped the seams with Tyvek tape, instead.)

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
So you ceiling will be a combination of drywall and suspended grid?

No, just a suspended ceiling. I'm not certain where the idea I was going to use rock on the ceiling came from.

There will be two levels to the ceiling: A lower level to get under the ductwork, then a higher level on the outside perimeter to avoid cutting the windows nearly in half. There'll be a bulkhead separating the two.

And that's why there's be eight lights instead of four or six, btw. Four at each level.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

The ceiling lights are all going to be these: Designer Ultra Slim 4 in. Oil Rubbed Bronze Integrated LED Recessed Kit

Those are cool, I've used them supplied by customers before. If I was going to use or supplly them I'd use the Lithonia because I'm familiar with their products.

Problem is: Nobody around here appears to carry the Lithonia product... any more? And I really wanted the black bezel. (It's not really black, but it looks so close as to make no never mind.)

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I've never heard of Globe before Home Depot started carrying them five minutes ago. I'd buy a couple spares just in case.

Already planned to do that, but thanks for the suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Also box appears to be 1.5" deep which can only hold 4 #12 RX cables or 5 #14.

Thanks for the catch! I'll replace it tomorrow.
[/QUOTE]

Just use a 4square extension. Will save you some time.

quote:

Originally posted by motoboy:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Also box appears to be 1.5" deep which can only hold 4 #12 RX cables or 5 #14.

Thanks for the catch! I'll replace it tomorrow.

Just use a 4square extension. Will save you some time.

Yeah, it would. Thanks for the pointer. Then again: It's new work, nothing's yet hooked together and I'm in no hurry

I'm still wondering if I'm ok using that Panduit product the way I am...?

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

I'm not certain where the idea I was going to use rock on the ceiling came from.

Right here:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
... if not run it wherever a bulkhead would be if the basement ever got drywalled.

It will be drywalled and a dropped ceiling installed.

Full skins comment:

quote:

I'd drill it if possible, if not run it wherever a bulkhead would be if the basement ever got drywalled. You are better off running them in separate runs if you have to strap to bottoms of joists if you later desire to finish with drywall you can then notch joists and install kick plates

By notching the joists and installing kick plates, skins is clearly talking about drywall on the ceiling.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I'm not certain where the idea I was going to use rock on the ceiling came from.

Right here:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
... if not run it wherever a bulkhead would be if the basement ever got drywalled.

It will be drywalled and a dropped ceiling installed.

Ah. I meant the walls would be drywalled. Guess I could've been more precise.

When I wired my son's house , I used a buttload of J boxes but they are all in the attic and not covered up . Inspector had no problem with them .