Here’s a video of a guy comparing his costs to that of an average ICE car over 50,000 miles.

In a nutshell he saved almost $8000!

https://youtu.be/bLiKEY7i1g4?si=O9wGZsRdTBwT7vtx

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Here’s a video of a guy comparing his costs to that of an average ICE car over 50,000 miles.

In a nutshell he saved almost $8000!

And what about at 80,000 to 100,000 miles when the batteries are shot and needing to be replaced?

I'm still not convinced there is any real savings in the long run especially with the skyrocketing price of electricity for most consumers.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Here’s a video of a guy comparing his costs to that of an average ICE car over 50,000 miles.

In a nutshell he saved almost $8000!

And what about at 80,000 to 100,000 miles when the batteries are shot and needing to be replaced?

I'm still not convinced there is any real savings in the long run especially with the skyrocketing price of electricity for most consumers.

Battery’s have a 8/120k warranty

I average $140 gas a week (Lexus LX570)
I average $70 electric charging at home a MONTH
I drive a lot for work

70,000 miles maintenance has been a set of tires

I did have to change the computer and harness because of rodents ($2200)

We are at about 4 years(maybe 5?) with our Y. It has been really cheap to run, even being on its third set of snow tires(we understand and accept the compromises running snows all the time).

I still love driving my BMW but its running(and insurance) costs dwarf the Teslas, even with me doing all the maintenance myself.

Now the batteries and electronics are better, and the cars have gotten more refined. It's really hard to argue against replacing the Y with another Tesla. Wife loves the cyber truck.

I'll allow it.

My biggest issue with the 3 and Model Y is I've never liked any car before that had center mounted gages. How is that working out for you guys, and are there cheap alternatives for a driver mounted gages?

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
My biggest issue with the 3 and Model Y is I've never liked any car before that had center mounted gages. How is that working out for you guys, and are there cheap alternatives for a driver mounted gages?

I hear you! Yes it is stupid, but you get used to it. The cars are very fast and surefooted if you respect the mass, and after a while you get used to not needing any gauges other than MPH and battery range. I tend to drive with the flow of traffic, maybe a tick faster, so the speedo isn't used either. Climate control can be fiddly, but only if you share the car with a female and have to change everything when you drive it.

I'm not sure about the expense cost analysis as it makes assumptions of the 'other side.'

But I'll grant that operating costs for the first 100K miles likely lower for Tesla assuming nothing abnormal (no premature failures, no accidents, etc).

However, this is not the basis for a purchase I would make. I would consider total cost of ownership (TCO) for the two specific options I personally would consider. For example, a Camry vs a Tesla Y. I have a Camry, my friend has a Y (more than 1 actually).

By our estimation, the Tesla would have an out the door price of $45K, the Camry $29K. So a $15K delta (that could be invested - time value of money over the 10 years / 100K miles). The operating cost delta is about $10K over the 10 years / 100K miles, in favor of the Tesla; the hardest part to normalize is the insurance. I think the insurance may favor the Camry a bit more than our estimate. So, we've agreed that TCO generally favors the Camry (especially if the initial outlay diff of $15K is invested - could almost double in the car's life; enough to almost buy another new Camry).

The Tesla does have more features and more performance, neither of which are really needed by me. It also has some aspects we don't care for.

The bottom line is the Tesla costs more out the door than my budget would allow. Even if the operating expenses are much lower to make the TCO more compelling, it's just way over the bar for me.

My friend loves his Y and wouldn't buy anything else. I just don't find them sufficiently compelling over my Camry. To each his own.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Don't some/most EVs go through tires quicker than their ICE counterparts? Extra weight & tons of torque.

Not just that. You have to buy EV rated tires and they are more than regular tires.

$850 a set for Conti DWS06 with 50k mile tread life warranty.
My tundra tires run about $1500.

About in line with what I was paying for max performance all seasons on my Mercedes [staggered width 19s]

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
But I'll grant that operating costs for the first 100K miles likely lower for Tesla assuming nothing abnormal (no premature failures, no accidents, etc).

However, this is not the basis for a purchase I would make. I would consider total cost of ownership (TCO) for the two specific options I personally would consider. For example, a Camry vs a Tesla Y. I have a Camry, my friend has a Y (more than 1 actually).

By our estimation, the Tesla would have an out the door price of $45K, the Camry $29K. So a $15K delta (that could be invested - time value of money over the 10 years / 100K miles). The operating cost delta is about $10K over the 10 years / 100K miles, in favor of the Tesla; the hardest part to normalize is the insurance. I think the insurance may favor the Camry a bit more than our estimate. So, we've agreed that TCO generally favors the Camry (especially if the initial outlay diff of $15K is invested - could almost double in the car's life; enough to almost buy another new Camry).

I think your numbers are a bit skewed

First you're really comparing apples and oranges if comparing the Camry to the Y. The first is a sedan while the second is a cross-over. A more likely comparison, based on the market, would be the RAV-4 and the Y...each respective companies' best selling vehicle.

You're also leaving out one of the Tesla's major cost advantages...required service. In 100k miles the Toyota will have likely been in for service at least 10 times with the dealer cost ranging from $200 (minor) to close to $1000 (major). Even if you went with discounted oil change services, that's something you'd never have to do with a Tesla. Being able to charge overnight at home and never having to go to a gas station would be a huge savings...even if you didn't have solar.

Not having to remind the wife to gas up, have the oil changed, or make appointments for service has it's own value in reduced stress

Just some quick estimate numbers. It’s been a long day and math is not my strong suit so I may be off a little here.
I have owned the Tundra 5 years and have averaged 10k miles a year and I get about 13mpg.

My electricity rate is 0.105 per kWh and the Tesla has an 82kWh battery.

Tesla claims 334 miles for this setup. I’ll say 275 reality.
So it will cost me $8.62 to charge the Tesla at home.
Costing me approximately $313.45 for 10k miles over the year

Using an average of $2.85 a gallon at 13 mpg 10k miles the Tundra costs me $2,232

Granted I would still drive my truck some. But it would bring the overall mileage down so I would save some money on maintenance and granted the 5.7 Tundras last forever it will last me even longer.

Just doing it for a straight cost savings is not going to be a win for the Tesla but there are plenty of things that would be very beneficial for me not driving a large truck all the time. While there is no true monetary cost analysis for.
We go to a lot of Bengals games and my truck fits in 2 parking garages in downtown Cincy one is a crazy distance away and the other is right next to the stadium and $75 to park.
So I park across the river and walk.

I also would just like a 2nd smaller vehicle. My wife drives a Suburban I have the Tundra we get the luxury of a date it would be nice just to have a car to drive.
I can be in one of these Model 3s that is 3 years old and about 50k miles for under $20k all day long. Still has a 5 years and 70k miles of warranty left on the most expensive parts of the vehicle.

Not sure of any other vehicle that fits that description and price point that is actually fun to drive.

Going to call to see about insurance tomorrow which I am afraid has the biggest possibility of being the deal breaker.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I'm not sure about the expense cost analysis as it makes assumptions of the 'other side.'

But I'll grant that operating costs for the first 100K miles likely lower for Tesla assuming nothing abnormal (no premature failures, no accidents, etc).

However, this is not the basis for a purchase I would make. I would consider total cost of ownership (TCO) for the two specific options I personally would consider. For example, a Camry vs a Tesla Y. I have a Camry, my friend has a Y (more than 1 actually).

By our estimation, the Tesla would have an out the door price of $45K, the Camry $29K. So a $15K delta (that could be invested - time value of money over the 10 years / 100K miles). The operating cost delta is about $10K over the 10 years / 100K miles, in favor of the Tesla; the hardest part to normalize is the insurance. I think the insurance may favor the Camry a bit more than our estimate. So, we've agreed that TCO generally favors the Camry (especially if the initial outlay diff of $15K is invested - could almost double in the car's life; enough to almost buy another new Camry).

The Tesla does have more features and more performance, neither of which are really needed by me. It also has some aspects we don't care for.

The bottom line is the Tesla costs more out the door than my budget would allow. Even if the operating expenses are much lower to make the TCO more compelling, it's just way over the bar for me.

My friend loves his Y and wouldn't buy anything else. I just don't find them sufficiently compelling over my Camry. To each his own.

I seriously doubt you can get a Camry for the price you stated. Plus you can order a Y long range for under $37,500. So the math favors a Tesla even more than what you stated.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
I seriously doubt you can get a Camry for the price you stated. Plus you can order a Y long range for under $37,500. So the math favors a Tesla even more than what you stated.

That was my thought also, but i was too lazy to look up what a Camry was going for.

I know what they advertise, but the last shooting buddy who got on told me he was paying well into the mid-$30k...because he worked hard not to go over $40k

FYI, current estimate for OTD cost for a well-optioned Camry 4-cyl is between $39k and $42k.

I said I'd never buy an EV. I thought they were weak (maybe not at full charge but certainly as the SOC went down), limited milage, take forever to charge and I didn't want to look like a wack job trying to save the planet and then I drove one. I know they have been around for a while and have only gotten better. In fact, the Tesla Model Y has been the best selling vehicle in the world for the last 2 almost 3 years. Not the best selling EV, but the best selling vehicle. I understand why now It feels discovering a best kept secret in vehicles.

The little convenience things really add up. One pedal driving, phone or iwatch key, driver profile customization, not having to turn the car on/off, auto shift from park works great, the App is extremely responsive and helpful for preconditioning the car or sending new routes to the vehicle remotely, the car is extremely quiet especially the 2026, all Teslas stereo systems sound like a dang concert. The summon feature is wild too. I could go on but while no one convenience factor is a reason to get a Tesla, the sum of them all makes for a really incredible "why didn't they make this before" type epiphany. It took a few drives to get used to looking at my speed in the center instead of behind the steering wheel, and now when I get into my gas car I find myself looking toward the center to find my speed instead of behind the wheel, lol. So you get use to it. It's also sorta nice that the controls and settings are on the center screen in one place.

Full self driving is not like a feature or a trim package upgrade, its is like sorcery. It's very profound. I'm also the type that wants to be in control of driving my vehicle...FSD is way safer than I can be. Currently there is 1 FSD accident per 7 million FSD miles being driven. Supervised FSD which is out now (unsupervised is coming) they are saying is 4 times safer than driving yourself. The best drivers in the world still only have 1 set of eyes, the car has 7 and they dont get sleepy or distracted. I recently went down to the beach and my youngest was sick all week and cranky, didnt make for a very fun vacation and we were worried how she'd do in the car ride back. We made a last minute decision after dinner to pack up and head home overnight. So from 9pm to 5am we drove and all the kids slept. Obviously I was tired, I used FSD and only disengaged it TWICE for some construction areas that the car probably would have done fine with but I just felt more comfortable navigating it myself. 2 times, probably unnecessary, at night, for 500 miles.

While it does take longer to charge than to fill up a tank of gas, it's not hours longer added to your road trip. Some charging sessions are only 5-10 mins, some are 20-25 minutes depending on where the next charger is located or how high of a SOC you want to have when you get to your destination. Road Tripping with FSD is a much less fatiguing way to travel, especially if you are going through unfamiliar cities. The car just handles it all. I also thought as a non-EV driver that you'd treat it like a gas car. Charge it to 100% then use it down to 10-20%, then charge it back up. Thats not at all the case. Tesla recommends 80% but to go the extra mile to slow degradation the closer to 50% you can keep the battery, the slower degradation you'll see over the life of the battery. So, figure out about how much % you use on average say 20% per day, then set the charge limit to 60%. When you get back home you'll be at 40% and then charge back up. It's like a little gas fairy comes and fills up just the gas you used for that day every night.

There is a chart that Tesla put out that shows the degradation average. Basically it's faster initially the first 50,000 miles and then slows and basically flattens out around 80-85% over the next 100k+.

I cant personally speak to longevity/reliability from my own experience because I just bought this thing and have less than 3,000 miles on it. However I dont think you can get a better car for $20-30k going used. There is a difference in HW3 vs HW4. They switched to the faster processors and better cameras I think halfway into 2022. So I'd recommend you try to get a car with HW4 as it will will be latest hardware package. This will benefit you when it comes to FSD and updates.

I know you do a lot of research especially when it comes to your vehicles so I'm trying to include some things that I didn't know or think about even after I did all my research for model y.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JohnV,

Does anyone know the cost of battery replacement? I understand that they are warrantied to 120k, but what's the cost beyond that? I generally keep my cars well beyond 100k miles. Our current Highlander is at 130k now. Are these essentially worthless after 120k? Who's going to buy a used one outside of the warranty period? If they are considered worthless after the warranty is over, what's the disposal cost? To me these are relevant to any cost comparison. All that said, if you want one, get it. I just don't think they fit my current needs for a vehicle.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Currently it is like $15k out of warranty. I am not really worried about it. I am looking to spend under $20k on this purchase and will still have 5 years of warranty on the battery.
We have no clue where battery technology will be at in 5 years.
I am more worried about the hardware/software being obsolete in that time.
This is a bit of a novelty purchase for me and I fully expect it to be worth zero when it dies. Out of warranty.

Talked to insurance today and they are preparing me rate quotes. Hope to have them tomorrow.

Now I need to learn about charging as someone said it’s not just plug it in and charge till 100%

Any suggestions on good videos explaining charging procedures/techniques for battery longevity?

Disposal cost is leave on the side of the interstate and never pick up from the impound lot.

JohnV makes a great summary case for the defense--I mean for Tesla.

I recently read on an old blog I occasionally scan, Kim DuToit. He said a friend of his was trying to get him to buy a Tesla because at--our ages--the Tesla is WAY safer than we are. I gotta say that's quite an argument for someone driving grandkids around.

My wife loves her Odyssey, I was thinking of getting her a newer one (not a new one); but maybe I can interest her in trying a Tesla. I don't really think she'll go for it because she doesn't like the "new-fangled" stuff, but hey. Maybe I'll trade in my '18 Accord for a used M3 or MY.

Next year. Maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:

I recently read on an old blog I occasionally scan, Kim DuToit. He said a friend of his was trying to get him to buy a Tesla because at--our ages--the Tesla is WAY safer than we are.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned or too stubborn to buy into that. Maybe I just consider myself to still be a good defensive driver and wouldn't be comfortable with my vehicle driving me. My Tundra has all the nanny features and I have all turned off except the emergency braking, I don't seem to be allowed to turn that one off. There have been a few times that the screen lit up and it started beeping at me that it activated but every time it's happened my foot has always been on the brake pedal the instant before it activated. I always tell my truck I'm still faster. I turn my head to drive in reverse (seemingly a forgotten skill of most people I see)I look over my shoulder before changing lanes, and I look both ways at intersections before entering. I hate commercials that show a car braking for someone because they were distracted. Maybe people should try not being distracted when they're driving and if they can't avoid that maybe they shouldn't be behind the wheel.

Please know that none of that was directed at you in any way, just my general feelings. A lot of the drivers on the road need the car looking out for them, I don't feel I'm one of them. Yet. I only hope I did a good job teaching my son to drive because he works at Tesla in AI.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
^^^^^^^^^^^
Currently it is like $15k out of warranty. I am not really worried about it. I am looking to spend under $20k on this purchase and will still have 5 years of warranty on the battery.
We have no clue where battery technology will be at in 5 years.
I am more worried about the hardware/software being obsolete in that time.
This is a bit of a novelty purchase for me and I fully expect it to be worth zero when it dies. Out of warranty.

Talked to insurance today and they are preparing me rate quotes. Hope to have them tomorrow.

Now I need to learn about charging as someone said it’s not just plug it in and charge till 100%

Any suggestions on good videos explaining charging procedures/techniques for battery longevity?

Disposal cost is leave on the side of the interstate and never pick up from the impound lot.

In the mobile app on your phone you can just set where you want to charge to. Couple guys at Tesla told me to just set max charge to either %80 or %90. Plug in when ever it starts to get low and let it do it's thing.

Pretty much what I do. Unless I am planning a longer trip. I'll open up the app and drag the charge up to %100 so it's fully topped off for a road trip to give me a extra 20-40 miles before it needs to be charged.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
JohnV makes a great summary case for the defense--I mean for Tesla.

I recently read on an old blog I occasionally scan, Kim DuToit. He said a friend of his was trying to get him to buy a Tesla because at--our ages--the Tesla is WAY safer than we are. I gotta say that's quite an argument for someone driving grandkids around.

My wife loves her Odyssey, I was thinking of getting her a newer one (not a new one); but maybe I can interest her in trying a Tesla. I don't really think she'll go for it because she doesn't like the "new-fangled" stuff, but hey. Maybe I'll trade in my '18 Accord for a used M3 or MY.

Next year. Maybe.

My father in law literally bought one too because he doesnt want us to have a reason to take his keys away if his car can drive itself. There was an article recently that I read that mentioned how the baby boomers are buying teslas for exactly this reason. We have an Odyssey too that we have loved and will continue to.