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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
I have been told that some asshole way back in our family line was actually helping the redcoats during that time. Kind of like the horse thief that got hung. We try to forget them.  Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
Everyone’s already covered the ops question, but the fuse thing....in naval artillery the fuses we had were adjustable... We could set for PD, IR, timed or to delay so the munition could enter a ships skin and then explode. We used the same munition for anti aircraft, hence the IR. The rounds fuse emits a infrared and detonates into flak when it gets near a plane. Fuses work by setback, meaning the thingy doesn’t go boom until after t has been fired...andddd, they also have to spin a certain amount of times, so that they are far enough away from the muzzle before it can explode and cause damage to the ship, I’d don’t know jack about mortars, but I really really wanna see one up and in person "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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Member |
This thread is giving me an indirect-fire woody.  Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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There are several types of fuzes for the 155. Point detonating, time, variable time, proximity and now even rf programable. All depends on the mission. Fuzes for ground arty act pretty much the same as the naval fuzes. But you are absolutely correct about the round being fired AND spin to activate. Thats what keeps dropped rounds from going off. Like in the op's video. No spin, no boom. | |||
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| Retired, laying back and enjoying life  |
About those artillery fuses. A mechanical fuse whether it is point impact, delay or variable time fuse all use a similar safety devise internally to keep it from going boom until it is safely far enough away from the gun. The basic operations can best be understood by imagining a firing pin set to be driven into a primer but is held back from the primer by two blocks setting on springs. The first block will release when the shell is fired in the gun and the g-force of the shell going down the tube forces the first spring back but the firing pin is still being blocked by the second block. This second block requires multiple rapid rotations of the shell to generate centrifugal force causing the second spring to push back far enough for the block to be removed and now it is armed. It takes both set back and centrifugal force to arm the artillery round. Small caliber mortars do not put much spin on the round hence they have fins to stabilize the round in flight so they use set back and a manual pin (bore riding pin) to arm the shell. Don't know much about laying the guns but as EOD I sure cleaned up a lot of messes both artillery and mortar made. Freedom comes from the will of man. In America it is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment | |||
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| Big Stack |
I find it funny they still cause proximity fuzes variable time (VT). That was a piece of obfuscation when they (the MIT Rad Lab?) developed the originals as a top secret project during WWII. I would think by now it would just be proximity (PX?). | |||
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Member |
Those are 155mm firing at five rounds/ minute. In Nam, 1969, M102's, 105mm, were used as direct infantry fire support. One battery of six per Infantry Battalion. Those were considerably faster at 10 rounds per minute. We were in the Central Highlands which had different, somewhat interesting challenges. What had everyone pissed was that we could not adjust from the mandatory first round smoke using HE. You had to adjust using smoke, or one HE round had to be fired with the same data as the smoke, then you could adjust with HE. This was a real negative when we had them in the open and not in direct contact with the grunts. The problem was that when the smoked popped, the NVA would break for another area. They knew where the guns were firing from and knew where the initial HE would impact. They also knew they usually had enough time to clear before the adjusted rounds would hit. My work-around was to immediately call for HE as soon as the smoke popped. Usually the HE would impact 50 to 60 yards further than the smoke. The NVA would run. As soon as the battery gave "shot out" for the first HE, I would adjust and call for battery four or six. A total of 24 to 36 rapid fire rounds blanketing an area. This is when the 10 rounds per minute came in handy, and it also made for awkward, old-man-yelling, conversations, within a small mountain top fire base. Regarding mortars and safety pins, etc. Only a person who drinks the Kool-aide would take these safety devices as gospel. I lost a very close friend, Red, the guy who taught me pinochlein a very small, wet mountain-top bunker. Red was a 1/35th Infantry four-duce mortar section chief. They had just stood down from a fire mission. A FNG decided on his own, to move prepared rounds to the other side of the pit. He dropped the first round and it went off. Fortunately only Red and the kid were still in the pit. "The cause of death was listed as Misadventure (Accident in Mortar Pit)" Red: [URL= http://www.cacti35th.org/regim...d=273&battalion=1st] http://www.cacti35th.org/regim...&battalion=1st[/URL] This includes a letter he had written to his parents shortly before his death. . . “Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . .” – Napoleon Bonaparte http://poundsstudio.com/ | |||
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| Member |
Two different fuzzes: the proximity fuze explodes when it is within a certain distance of the ground, trees, etc. The Variable time fuze explodes at a pre-set time, regardless of where it is. . “Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . .” – Napoleon Bonaparte http://poundsstudio.com/ | |||
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| Member |
I was in a 8" towed reserve unit back in 1958-1962 and if I remember correctly we could get off a round in less than ten seconds which would be a rate of six per minute. That was during "fire for effect" without any adjustments to the piece, but just reloading and firing. I forget what the "TO&E called for manning the gun, but we could always work faster working with less people. The loading tray was supposed to be manned by four people, but all you would do is get in each other's way. Two worked just fine. I usually worked to the right side of the gun in ammo prep. I would would set the projos vertical, removed the lifting rings, screw in either impact of timed fuses and set them accordingly. My MOS was 310.00, Field Communications Crewman, which was a wireman, however I was also on the gun every time they fired it. You could really operate an arty battery with far fewer people than the TOE called for. Here is a link to a youtube showing the howitzer I am referring to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCvh5aP8-U8 "If you think everything's going to be alright, you don't understand the problem!"- Gutpile Charlie "A man's got to know his limitations" - Harry Callahan | |||
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yeah buddy ! I am glad I asked, great info , thanks for taking the time ,people Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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Member |
You may be confused. "Proximity" and "VT" fuze are the same thing; the names are used interchangeably. "Proximity fuze, also called Vt Fuze, or Influence Fuze, an explosive ignition device used in bombs, artillery shells, and mines. The fuze senses when a target is close enough to be damaged or destroyed by the weapon’s explosion. The sensor is typically a small radar set that sends out signals and listens for their reflections from nearby objects." Source A fuze set to explode at a pre-set time is a mechanical time (MT) fuze (example: Fuze, Mechanical Time, M565/N248). This function is also found in the mechanical time/superquick (MTSQ) family of fuses (example: Fuze, Mechanical Time and Superquick, M564/N278). Some newer fuzes incorporate several modes. An example of this is the Fuze, Multi-Option Artillery (MOFA), M782/NA09. It incorporates variable time, mechanical time, point-detonating, and delay. This fuze is set via a portable inductive fuze setter. All of this can be found in TM 43-0001-28. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| Member |
The 96 lb. weight for the 155 projo is about right. The 8 inch HE was 197 if I recall. I served with both in VN. | |||
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| Retired, laying back and enjoying life |
4.2" Mortars do not have bore ridding pins. The 4.2 has rifling like an artillery tube. There is a plate at the bottom that expands and engages the rifling and spins the projectile so the 4.2 uses same type fusing as does the artillery. The 4.2 dates back to WWI when it was developed as a chemical weapon delivery weapon. Over the years they have had their problems with premature detonations but not from a bore riding safety. The 81 and 60 use bore riding pins but have had serious problems with different fuses and have been known to blow up in the gun, hitting branches over the firing position and a few feet from the gun. Freedom comes from the will of man. In America it is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment | |||
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| Member |
I remember using 33 pounds for 105mm HE, M1; 95 pounds for 155mm HE, M107; and 200 pounds for 8" HE, M106 for standard HE projectile/fuze weights. Other make/model projectiles and fuze combinations had different weights.This message has been edited. Last edited by: 229DAK, _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. Frederick The Great of Prussia It is far better to experience outgoing artillery fire than it is to experience incoming artillery fire. The First Guy Shot at by Artillery Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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| 7.62mm Crusader |
Sorry for the loss of your friend. That letter by President Nixon is most honorable and gracious words. I didn't know the man could write like that. | |||
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| Member |
Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. Napoleon Bonaparte _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
"Direction 360 Deg Magnetic, Left 50, Drop 50, FFE!" | |||
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| Member |
You are correct, I am going back 50 years to '68 - '69, and can legitimately claim senior moment/ brain fart. I was not a "gun bunny", so I had no hands on the fuzes. My MOS was 13E20 (FDC) and had learned all that at Fr. Sill. In Nam I was Artillery Liaison and occasionally an informal F.O., or RTO. In other words, controlling and coordinating all the direct infantry support and Counter Mortar /Counter Rocket, "H" and "I", and playing outside the wire with the grunts. I happen to be dyslectic, so I avoided all FDC work once I got to Nam. I do remember that the "mechanical time (MT) fuze" was the type used in "Beehive rounds" where they would be set to fly 50+ yards, 100, or further depending on the need. The 50+ yards was used as a "last" measure in LZ defense because the flechette rounds would fly everywhere and were proceeded by a red hand flare so everyone could assume the pucker position. . “Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . .” – Napoleon Bonaparte http://poundsstudio.com/ | |||
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Coin Sniper |
Ok, question.... my grandfather was with an artillery unit in WWII. He didn't talk about it much but when I was a kid he explained, just once, how they set up the guns. I remember him talking about setting up aiming stakes that the gunners used to align the guns based on input from the forward observers. Did you use this technique, or had it advanced by Vietnam? Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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