I need to replace several switches. They work fine, just need different style.

{Stoopid question alert} I’ve got several that control ceiling lights from 3 separate locations. Realize this equates to a 4-way switch somewhere. What I’m not clear on is are all 3 of them going to be 4-ways, or one of the 3 is 4-way and the other two are merely 3-ways?

If they are/should all be 4-way easy answer. If a mix, how the heck do I differentiate them to know which I need for my replacement?

Bonus point for any tips on wiring the new ones right the first time to avoid 13 trips upstairs to breaker. I do own a multimeter.

They are all 3 way switches. The fourth through how ever many are still the same switch just wired to add the location.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
They are all 3 way switches. The fourth through how ever many are still the same switch just wired to add the location.

Really. For a light that is controlled from three separate locations? Everything I could find indicated that required a 4-way somewhere in circuit....

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
They are all 3 way switches. The fourth through how ever many are still the same switch just wired to add the location.

No, two are 3-way and one is a 4-way. The 4-way is wired between the 3-way switches.

Google "wiring 4 way switches" and diagrams will come up depending upon the feed and switch leg locations in the circuit.

If there are three switches that control a single light two of them will be three-way and one will be a four-way.

The three-way should have a black screw. This is for the common wire. Make sure you put the common wire back on the right screw.

The four-way will have two common screws. How they wire partial depends on where the power comes in and where the wire for the light goes out. Lots of good pictures on the internet.

Maybe skins will be along with some good pointers. I've done a few but not good at explaining it.

So, to have on hand what I need for each 3-switch circuit I should plan on 1 4-way and 2 3-way switches, right?

Anything to be aware of wiring up the 4-way switch?

You can switch a light from more than 3 locations.
Switch use would be like this:

Line - 3way - 4way - 4way - 3way - Load

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
So, to have on hand what I need for each 3-switch circuit I should plan on 1 4-way and 2 3-way switches, right?

Anything to be aware of wiring up the 4-way switch?

Yes. If you are simply replacing existing switches with new ones, do them one at a time, and replace wire for wire.
The 4 way should have 4 terminals, 2 should be marked "in" and 2 "out"
https://www.wikihow.com/Wire-a-4-Way-Switch

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Originally posted by 45_Auto:
If you are simply replacing existing switches with new ones, do them one at a time, and replace wire for wire.

^^^ This.

Turn off power.
Mark your wires. (white electrical tape and a sharpie work great)
Replace 1 switch.
Turn power back on.
Test ALL switches thoroughly.
Repeat.

Some of the 4 way switches switch differently- if same brand you can probably just do a direct replacement but make sure you check the markings on the switch, don't just go by where the wire connects to the switch.

quote:

Yes. If you are simply replacing existing switches with new ones, do them one at a time, and replace wire for wire.
The 4 way should have 4 terminals, 2 should be marked "in" and 2 "out"

So here I am. Replaced one switch at a time, one wire at time like an electric idiot should.

Also like that idiot, didn't pay attention to the in/out marking on the 4-way and instead hooked up based on up/down orientation. Yeah, I know..... The 3-ways were a little different as well, but did wire those one-at-a-time with two on the same side of switch as original, one on the other.

So the lights will only turn on if the 4-way is on, can turn them off with the other two 3-ways, but if the 4-way is switched off the other two switches may as well be blocks of wood - no love.

I suspect I've got the 4-way "upside down" for input and out, but wanted to see if any of our wizards had other ideas before I start swapping that out. Moving on to the other 8 switches in the panels, will check back with hopes for any insight.

I do have a multimeter. May as well be a thermometer without knowing what my target strategy is.

Edit to add -I swapped the in and out wires on the 4-way. With that can only turn on lights if 4-way is on. Also now can’t turn on just at 4-way, the other 2 3-way switches must be on for lights to work.

So, I suspect 4-way was right as originally wired, and the 3-ways are where I’m wrong?

Easy peasy.

The easiest art up which is likely what you have will have feed on one end of system and switch leg on the other end. If this is the case super easy, if it's fed in the middle or at the light I'll need pics.

S4 switch:

Two sets of three wire. The whites are tied together and pushed into back of box, those feed the neutral from feed to switch ends.

The remaining wires two blacks and two reds need to be straightened out. Once done pair red and black together for each cable coming in box. One set of red and black is input second set is output, doesn't matter which is which just that you get two wires from same cable in in/out terminals.

Input/output can be either top and bottom or right/left, make you you check on back of switch.

S3 switches:

Standard set up will be whites tied together once again and tucked in the back of box.

Straighten out wires once again. Look at wiring the single black wire coming from cable with blk/wht will be your common (black screw). The cable with red/black/wht will use the red and black as travelers and go on remaining two screws, order doesn't matter.

If you see a white wire tied to red or black or a white on a screw terminal, then it's more complicated and I'll need pics.

ETA for others wishing in the future to tell which switch is what. You can tell by feel 99% of time. The one(s) that are harder to switch are the S4s, the easier to switch are S3s. If you can't tell by feel, remove plate and count screws. S4 has four terminals, S3 has three.

Also you can only have two S3 in any system, but unlimited S4s between the two S3s.

Trivia question:

Does a house require ANY S3 switches?

Nope, only if they have a set of stairs with seven or more risers. Ramblers do not need one by code in the whole house, but are often installed as a matter of convenience in the hallways and front/back doors.

Thanks Skins - realize this is your day job and appreciate this insight.

The 4S has two blacks and two whites connected to switch. White neutral bundle shoved back of box, and a red that comes in box and is wire nutted to another red that also just leaves box...

One 3S has a red white and black, with black and white on same side of 3-way switch. Other 3S has two blacks one side, white on the other.

Pics coming.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
Thanks Skins - realize this is your day job and appreciate this insight.

The 4S has two blacks and two whites connected to switch. White neutral bundle shoved back of box, and a red that comes in box and is wire nutted to another red that also just leaves box...

One 3S has a red white and black, with black and white on same side of 3-way switch. Other 3S has two blacks one side, white on the other.

S4 is still the same. Pair off wires to wht/blk coming from each cable. One set of white/Black from same cable is input, the other set is output. Again which is in/out doesn't matter just that one pair from same cable goes to in, and the other cables blk/wht goes to out.

I will need to know a bit more for the S3s, but make sure the S4 is set up as stated before messing with anything else. Then restore power and test operation. If the light changes state with every flip from every location then no further changes are needed.

The one with Red/blk/wht on it, are all three wires coming from the same cable?

The r/w/b switch is all from one group coming into box.

S4 appears to be set up with top/bottom as in/out. Confirm with box it came in and writing on back of switch. Connect and I described above with one pair of wht/blk on in, the second in out. Making sure that the ones on in and out are both coming from the same cable. Then test. I can probably walk you through without pics for the S3s, once you've set up S4 right, if that doesn't fix it.

The 4S is wired with on pair of wires in, the other out. I’ve got blacks on opposite sides though, both on copper colored screws.

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I’ve got blacks on opposite sides though, both on copper colored screws.

That shouldn't matter as long as one cables wires go to in and the other pair to out. I'm OCD so Id put blacks in one side and whites in other or else my head might explode.

Emailed you my number, if getting S4 right doesn't work I'll walk you through the rest over phone.