quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
It's all likely to keep the focus on this topic and associate it with the pussy grabber in chief and keep everyone appalled. Look forward to 7 years of coverage of sexual predators. Maybe they'll give up a bit after DT wins in 2020.

Good grief. Congratulations. You managed to not only NEEDLESSLY interject politics into this thread, you managed to do so by quoting me. In case you've missed it, I have been saying for YEARS in this forum to refrain from interjecting political commentary into apolitical threads.

Congratulations. Way to go

There is a lot of culpability here. In some cases the signs were clear and ignored, in some cases victims reported and were ignored due to the good Dr's reputation.

The very first victim wasn't even a gymnast but a neighbor. She reported the abuse to her father who immediately put her in front of the monster to apologize, after a brief respite, he went after her again. Her relationship with her family was destroyed.

Other victims testified that he molested them in his office, with their parents present. He simply positioned himself between them and their parents(probably engrossed in other thoughts, books, cell device) and told them it was part of their 'treatment', normal, and would speed their recovery.

All of the warning signs were there, and they were ignored. The defendant's reputation as a Dr, the fear of damage to the reputation of MSU, US Gymnastics, and the USOC turned a blind eye to this. After all, what is the future of one little girl compared to the mighty reputations of those organizations?

I'll tell you what it is... it is everything. You don't sacrifice the future of a child, a member of your organization, to avoid the discomfort of uncovering the reality that a monster maneuvered his way in to do the unthinkable. That is unacceptable, it cannot be condoned, it cannot be allowed to happen again. That was the reason I started this thread and why the focus was on the lessons learned.

The pieces are now starting to align, the three organizations that could have stopped this are about to find themselves in a spotlight that they didn't want to be in, and desperately attempted to avoid. The reality is that had they simply acknowledged what had happened, took aggressive steps to stop him and bring him to justice, they would have been lauded as heroes for protecting children instead of being the targets of an investigation that will destroy what they tried to protect.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
All of the warning signs were there, and they were ignored. The defendant's reputation as a Dr, the fear of damage to the reputation of MSU, US Gymnastics, and the USOC turned a blind eye to this. After all, what is the future of one little girl compared to the mighty reputations of those organizations?

This exactly.

Think of all the trainers, physical therapists, coaches, other doctors, assistants... who ALL must have known or suspected SOMEthing... but because it was disgusting, inconvenient, and they "probably just misunderstood" did nothing. Or, worse, actively denied what these girls told them. "They're just little girls" and "this guy is a well-known and respected doctor"... that's what makes it MOST heartbreaking of all.

And when they DID know, USAG did nothing. And they STILL to this DAY are not owning up to their role in this... and are STILL talking down to the gymnasts who were involved.

I am the only one who's seen these little girls compete, on TV or wherever, and being hugged and groped by all and sundry adults and not thought to themselves "geez, I hope that guy isn't a pervert"? Didn't it OCCUR to USAG to put some framework in place to warn the girls about "good touch" and "bad touch"? To ensure the girls are protected against predatory behavior?

I Do. Not. Understand. Why USAG hasn't been decertified by the USOC. Because it'll be inconvenient for clubs and athletes who weren't involved. Who cares. The USAG folks in charge need to see at least SOME consequences for their actions.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
this just in...
The president of MSU, who is a woman, just resigned...

She should be named in the civil suits. Dumb bitch allowed him to continue to see patients until 2016 despite being under investigation since 2014. Over a dozen more girls/women exploited during that time oeriod at MSU.

Check out this espn article on the obfuscation, slow roll, etc by MSU

Having once worked for a large state university system I concluded that they will “eat their young” without hesitation in order to protect themselves from scandal.

Private institutions are no different. Baylor University went through a well publicized harassment scandal within the past couple of years. They are a religious affiliated school with a reputation to protect.

“You say you were assaulted at a party? And alchohol was being served? Don’t you know that alchohol is against the rules? You’re the one in trouble young lady! You are subject to being expelled! Are you sure you want to pursue this?”

I’m sure all of the facts will never be known, but this is how victims portrayed their treatment. They felt that If they complained, they would be the ones in trouble ie you must have been engaging in unbecoming behavior to begin with.

I’m sure Baylor isn’t the only school where this sort of defensive behavior is used to protect the collective ass.

Any large organization that has reputation and jobs to protect is going to be tempted to put people last.

We are focusing our attention on the college and the USOC and rightfully so.
But youth competitive sports seems to be a risky thing to involve your kid in at all these days. And parents may contribute to that risk.
When my kid was growing up, the big thing was youth soccer. Way too much pressure to win. Insane sideline conduct from parents and spectators. Coaches yelling at kids. And the expense and effort to travel to away games was excessive. My kid was smart enough to come and tell me he did not enjoy the atmosphere and we made our exit. He also told me that many of his team mates felt the same way, but their parents refused to allow them to quit. He said that many kept playing because they did not want to upset or disappoint their parents.
I wont go as far as to say that parents ignored abuse in order for their kid to participate in USOC level sports. But I wonder how many kids kept their abuse secret in an effort to live up to parent expectations.
For myself, I would be leery of allowing my kid to participate in any higher level competitive sport unless I was in a position to fully monitor everyone involved.
Would that even be possible? Probably not.

It appears that not only is the pursuit of those who concealed this abuse on the national stage, but Congress is now opening hearings.

Apparently the USOC maintains that they had no legal duty to follow up on any complaints. I've been involved in leadership in several youth organizations and that has NEVER been the case. The rules and laws have been VERY clear.

I expect that this will get very ugly for the organizations involved as the 'no duty to act' claim just isn't going to cut it with Americans.

quote:

Originally posted by maxdog:
Having once worked for a large state university system I concluded that they will “eat their young” without hesitation in order to protect themselves from scandal.

Private institutions are no different. Baylor University went through a well publicized harassment scandal within the past couple of years. They are a religious affiliated school with a reputation to protect.

“You say you were assaulted at a party? And alchohol was being served? Don’t you know that alchohol is against the rules? You’re the one in trouble young lady! You are subject to being expelled! Are you sure you want to pursue this?”

I’m sure all of the facts will never be known, but this is how victims portrayed their treatment. They felt that If they complained, they would be the ones in trouble ie you must have been engaging in unbecoming behavior to begin with.

I’m sure Baylor isn’t the only school where this sort of defensive behavior is used to protect the collective ass.

Any large organization that has reputation and jobs to protect is going to be tempted to put people last.

I also worked at a large university for several years, and concur with this post. Imho, the educational elitists will eat their own and never let the outside in.

For me, MSU, Baylor, Penn State, and any other "abusive" environments need an NCAA death penalty, and no federal money should be withheld for decades.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
We are focusing our attention on the college and the USOC and rightfully so.
But youth competitive sports seems to be a risky thing to involve your kid in at all these days. And parents may contribute to that risk.
When my kid was growing up, the big thing was youth soccer. Way too much pressure to win. Insane sideline conduct from parents and spectators. Coaches yelling at kids. And the expense and effort to travel to away games was excessive. My kid was smart enough to come and tell me he did not enjoy the atmosphere and we made our exit. He also told me that many of his team mates felt the same way, but their parents refused to allow them to quit. He said that many kept playing because they did not want to upset or disappoint their parents.
I wont go as far as to say that parents ignored abuse in order for their kid to participate in USOC level sports. But I wonder how many kids kept their abuse secret in an effort to live up to parent expectations.
For myself, I would be leery of allowing my kid to participate in any higher level competitive sport unless I was in a position to fully monitor everyone involved.
Would that even be possible? Probably not.

There certinly is something to what you say, and it certainly doesplay a role in this whole damn thing.

My youngest son played hockey for several years and for the most part he had excellent coaches who weren't out to prove they were the next Scotty Bowman. Mind you this was house ice hockey, and my son wasn't all that great. He had the heart and brains but not the physical gifts. I was fine with that as I wanted him to take part in a team sport, get some exercise and have some fun.

When he was 11 he was drafted by a coach who introduced himself to me by saying he was asked to coach this team even though he coached at some higher level. In other words...you are so damn lucky to have me!!

After several weels of the same damn drill at practice, numerous 'f' bombs and such gems as 'make them drink their big mac through a straw if they skate through center ice with their heads down' and generally berating the kids my son wanted to quit. I talked him into sticking it out after receiving some excellent advice by someone who has participated in this very thread, and he went on to play a few more years until he chose to call it a day.

I understand tough coaching, and don't have an issue with a coach pushing my son, but the overriding desire to win at any cost even at this level was way overboard.

I wanted my son to enjoy the rewards of being involved in a team sport and to be encouraged to excel to the best of HIS abilities for his own benefit. Guys like that coach exemplify the screwed up perspective of people who see nothing but the brass ring, and who continually have to prove TO THEMSELVES how great they or their kids are/can be. You wonder why people turned away from a painful truth....

Parents have ruined youth sports - not all parents, but you know the parents.

The same ones that wouldn't believe their child was being abused by the likes of the topic of this thread.

I just push my kids to excel in something that matters - school / knowledge. Believe it or not, that is far more valuable and can pay the way through college.

I will not disagree that parental influence has negatively impacted youth sports. I will also agree that bad coaching and poor organization within local sports organizations contributes to the problem.

However lets try to keep this focused on topic please.

Regardless of bad parents, bad coaches, or bad districts/regions, molestation or abuse of athletes is a very serious issue, needs to be identified quickly, and dealt with decisively with the protection and well being of the athlete in mind.

The role of these organizations is to provide a safe, fun, learning environment so that kids can learn to love the specific sport or activity. That means protecting the participants from unnecessary injury, abuse, or other illegal acts.

The news release from MSU stating that the reports filed before 2015 do not count because the weren't reported to the right person, is absolutely the WRONG answer.

The news release from the USOC stating that they had no legal obligation to protect the athletes from Dr. Predator is an example of "Go back and re-think every decision tied to this entire incident as you did it wrong". I can't even wrap my head around who told them that they had no legal responsibility to prevent the sexual abuse of children by a member of the organization.

I also have trouble understanding how the parents were present in the room while abuse was happening. I don't have kids but if I have an athlete being evaluated by a trainer, I am watching everything that trainer does, even if it is school supplied. I'm doing that to protect the athlete, but potentially also the trainer should any accusation arise.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Parents have ruined youth sports - not all parents, but you know the parents.

The same ones that wouldn't believe their child was being abused by the likes of the topic of this thread.

I just push my kids to excel in something that matters - school / knowledge. Believe it or not, that is far more valuable and can pay the way through college.

Agree with a lot of what you have said. As an archery coach parents can be both our best ally and our worst enemy. For the most part the parents in our club are great, supportive of their kids and willing to help out at the club. However we have a few that push their kids too hard and focus only on the score at the end of the round.

Agree with wanting kids to excel in academics. I'm also a firm believer that kids need to take part in some form of competition growing up, be it athletics, music, academics, something. There's too many life lessons to be learned. In real life not everyone gets a trophy. Kids need to learn that sometimes their best is not good enough and need to learn how to cope with that. They can give up and quit, or they can choose to be successful, learn from it, practice to improve and be better the next time.

my sister's grand daughter went to the Texas "facility " where he worked, but the child was never out of her mother's sight, for the whole 11 days.

The resignations have apparently started

MSU - President & Athletic Director
USGA - USOC President demands all board members step down
USOC - None announced yet

MSU is coming under additional scrutiny for a possible cover up of sexual assault related to the basketball and football programs

Keep your skates on....

there are dozens of gym camps, tumbling camps, cheer camps, etc. all over the U.S.A. there have got to be more of these predators out there ,doing the same thing.

So now there is a bill in Congress that requires the police to be notified of reports of molestation or sexual assaults within 24 hrs.

That's great. It's been the law in Michigan for years for anyone who is a Mandatory Reporter (teacher, coach, etc). If I see you punch your 5 year old in the face in Kroger, I am legally obligated to pick up the phone and dial 911.

The scary thing is that we NEED a law requiring this. Anyone who doesn't report abuse needs their head examined.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
If I see you punch your 5 year old in the face in Kroger, I am legally obligated to pick up the phone and dial 911.

The scary thing is that we NEED a law requiring this. Anyone who doesn't report abuse needs their head examined.

Well, I guess my question would be- are there any five year olds in the world that need to be punched in the face and, if so, how do we know that the Kroger kid is not one of them?

I know, I know. Goin' to Hell.

A father of 3 victims in the second State trial, who learned of the depth of the abuse listening to his daughters statements, asked for 5 minutes alone in a room with the monster, then a minute, then decides to just handle it right there in court.

The judge considered the incredible strain of a father learning of the full breadth of abuse for the first time and elected to not charge the father for attempting to take his due from the defendant. The father apologized to the court, those present, and the officers forced to restrain him. Seems like a stand up guy.

Video at the story here: https://www.clickondetroit.com...rt-during-sentencing

^^^^

Those deputies were obviously ready and expecting that. They were on him FAST. It sure looked like the one was really trying to calm him and express understanding after he was down.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
^^^^

Those deputies were obviously ready and expecting that. They were on him FAST. It sure looked like the one was really trying to calm him and express understanding after he was down.

Yet, clearly were not overly aggressive and once they had him down were talking to him. I'd love to know what the Deputy was saying in his ear.

It's amazing it took until the 2nd sentencing for this to happen