I’m loosing ground trying to manage my diabetes. A few days ago, I stumbled onto something that seems to offer a solution to my problem. However, it runs counter to everything I’ve always been told regarding a healthy diet. That something is called a Plant Based Diet. It seems to be the purist form of a vegan diet.
There are some YouTube videos by a Dr. McDougall and a Dr. Esselstyn that led me to a presentation by a Dr. T. Collin Campbell and his research results.
There is a documentary on Netflix called Forks over Knives that mentions an impressive amount of research and cites articles in well known medical journals about the relationship of diet to health.
The diet they propose is touted as being able to reduce the affects of or even eliminate diabetes.
Has anyone seen Forks over Knives or used their plant based diet approach to dealing with diabetes? I’m not sure I can do it or want to try it, but the conventional approach to managing my malady is no longer working for me.
I would like to hear some serious feed back from someone who either knows more about this plant based diet or is actually using it.

Carbohydrates are the 'enemy' in diabetes. Sugars and many plants, potatoes, rice, fruits are among the highest in carb count! Breads, plant derivatives make breads, are carbohydrates. Meats, eggs, are proteins and are not counted, no breading, coatings or butter. Juices are typically high or higher in carbohydrates, due to sugars, and again plant materials. Using a pump you count carbohydrates to determine your insulin requirements (type 1). Type 2 count carbohydrates and minimize carbohydrates to help keep blood sugars down,cand minimize their diabetes becoming worse. I was diagnosed type 1 from the beginning, so only have incidential knowledge of type 2.
Carbohydrates counting information is readily available on the internet, but as with anything on the net , caution has to be used.
Registered dieticians, nurses and doctors, especially those specializing in diabetes treatments, are your friend, and offer the best advise! See a medical professional for diagnosis, treatment, and resources, and as you become more knowledgeable about your medical health and particulars, you can understand more.
Trying a chiropractor a long time ago, one of his sales pitches was that he could cure diabetes! Did not even know the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. But he had miracle products, and pitches to sell!
Join the ADA, American Diabetes Association, and lots of information available, including the latest research underway, Q&A sections, food recipes, with carb counts, calories, and other nutrition information online and in their magazine. Packaged products have a label with this information on the box, or plastic wrap. Be sure to read the serving size the carbohydrates count is based on!
The internet has information on the carb counts of raw vegatables, fruits, based upon serving size!! Serving size is important.

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Originally posted by walkinghorse:
Carbohydrates are the 'enemy' in diabetes. Sugars and many plants, potatoes, rice, fruits are among the highest in carb count! Breads, plant derivatives make breads, are carbohydrates.

I was about to say the same thing...

I'm not a nutritionist, but this seems pretty unlikely, considering it's plants and plant-derivatives that are the source of carbohydrates/sugars.

There are a few low-carb plants. But there are tons of no-carb meats.

And there are tons of fad diets, chock full of BS.

In your particiular case, your medical professional needs to be seen!!!
Maybe you are type 2, and need insulin assistance, a change in medication, or a weight loss program. Diabetes control is a moving target, age and aging, activity level, illness, seasons, seriousness towards control level, otherwords lots of things affect your control. Even maintaining tight control, things outside your control can drive you crazy!!
Various testing by your doctor, can assist in determine your bldd sugar control. Some you may not even suspect!
Good luck!

I don't know about that specific program, but there has been some research suggesting that it's actually intracellular fat content that results in insulin resistance. Basically, insulin acts as a gateway to get glucose into cells. When there's too much fat inside the cells, insulin can't get the glucose in, so it triggers an increase in insulin production to try and get the glucose out of the bloodstream and into the cells. The plant-based diet advocates claim that going to a low-fat vegetarian/vegan diet helps clear the fat out of the cells and restores insulin sensitivity. There've been people who say they've reversed their diabetes by going vegan.

Personally, I think intermittent fasting would probably be a better approach, but I'm not an expert on the subject. Look up Dr. Fung (I think that's his name). He has some YouTube videos and says that he's had diabetic patients who've eliminated their need for medications by following a ketogenic, intermittent diet plan.

Whatever you do, consult with your doctor first.

Well you will get lots of opinions on this. The plant based folks say that the carbs and sugars are NOT the cause of diebetes but fat in the cells that cause it. At any rate, the proof is in the numbers. I went planet based for 3 weeks and dropped my blood sugar from 139 to 98. My cholesterol went from too high to in the normal range and I lost weight. I continued to eat pastas (whole weat) fruit and potatoes. Plant based takes a lot of work but I think it doesn’t get enough credit. I can’t begin to tell you all the other side befits of a plant based diet. Give it a try and see what happens to your numbers. My doctor was shocked.

My issue with the "plant" based side is how biased they seem to be regarding (not) eating animals for moral and/or environmental reasons, then come up with nutritional reasons to justify the stance.

You can find MD and scientific support on each side and you can certainly drop blood sugar and cholesterol on a low carb (plenty 'o meat) diet as well.

Plant based, low carb, fasting, there is support for all of it. Decide which style suits you long term and talk to you Dr. about it.

P.S. if "Forks over Knives" is the documentary I'm thinking of, I shut it off after less than 10 biased minutes of selective (willfully ignorant?) information. It was that documentary that made me realize what an MD, or nutritionist says is as irrelevant as any study as well. Because on all sides of the nutrition debate are professionals and studies to back it up. So, Paleo MD and study cancels out Plant based MD and study etc.

Get bloodowrk, eat whole foods and drastically reduce or eliminate sugars, highly processed foods, fried foods etc. Get bloodwork again, see progress, adjust, repeat.

If you go plant based, research essential ammino and fatty acids. You need to make sure you are getting all the fats (building blocks of hormones) and all the right proteins.

Not 100% sure what defines "Plant Based". But you can give it a shot. Breads and pasta are the devil!! Been diabetic since 2017. Went from 488, to about 132 daily average. I do watch what I eat. I eat lots of chicken, carrots, veggies, fruits, almonds and assorted nuts, salads (watch the dressing), eggs, some meat. Work out anywhere from 3-7 days a week. I swear like two twizzles a day, and my morning Café Ole from Starbucks help keep the sugar down.

Everybody's body may be different.

Eat to the Meter.

Get a BG meter. Test yourself before eating and every thirty minutes after you started eating for two to three hours. Keep a log. See what raises your blood sugar and what doesn't. One thing about a meter is that it has no political bias.

CVS sells a store brand meter and strips that is inexpensive and seems to work.

For me, avoiding all carbs gets me to an A1C in the low 5s, good cholesterol and blood pressure. Good enough for the doctors? Maybe not. But damn good.

My diet is primarily meat, fish, chicken, eggs, cheese, heavy cream, butter, olive oil, and a limited amount of low carb vegetables. Boring? Yes. But, I get to keep my feet.

I follow a plant based diet with great results. Eating a vegan diet is not necessarily a whole foods plant based diet. Many vegan foods are processed and have fats, oil, & sugars to make them tolerable. The key word is WHOLE FOOD plant based. I have seen Forks Over Knives, Eating You Alive, What the Health (all good DVD's). Beside the Esselstyns & John McDougal, look at Dr. Joel Fuhrman too. He is a practicing family physician and has several different best sellers out on Diabetes, Heart Disease, and weight loss.

Google "Engine 2 seven day rescue". Try the whole foods plant based diet for 7 days and look at the results. Join the Engine 2 Facebook page to get ideas and see results of others.

I have little knowledge on your subject, but about a year ago I discovered Mestemacher Westphalian pumpernickel, baked in Germany. Unlike most US made “pumpernickel”, it has no wheat flour, only rye (whole grain). Compared to wheat, rye has more fiber (good), and less carbohydrate (good). Also unlike most US made “pumpernickel”, it gets its dark color from a long (18 - 24 hours) baking process, rather than from additives (dark molasses, coco, coffee). Because of the nature of rye, and the fact that the rye in this product is coarsely ground, the glycemic spike is lower.

Since discovering this bread, I’ve never been without it. I order it from Amazon. It comes in a box with 11 individually wrapped, 8.8 oz packets. Each packet has six thin, dense, rectangular slices. Unopened packets keep good at room temperature for several months.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
Carbohydrates are the 'enemy' in diabetes. Sugars and many plants, potatoes, rice, fruits are among the highest in carb count! Breads, plant derivatives make breads, are carbohydrates.

I was about to say the same thing...

I'm not a nutritionist, but this seems pretty unlikely, considering it's plants and plant-derivatives that are the source of carbohydrates/sugars.

There are a few low-carb plants. But there are tons of no-carb meats.

And there are tons of fad diets, chock full of BS.

This is true. BUT, you also need to eat REAL solid protein like chicken, fish, meats. These allow your body to maintain a more level sugar level and your body uses sugar to process these dense foods. I would be very wary on going all plant based. My sister was an insulan rep for many years. BUT, ask your doctor.....he/she knows your medical history and everything.

I will echo what Fenris said, get a meter and test, test, test.

My personal observation is that my body does best on birds, fishes, and the occasional steak combined with lots of vegetables. Not starches or grains as they do not fit in my definition of vegetables.

Everyone here who has responded is doing so in good faith, and I commend them... unfortunately, you have left out the most important item of information:
Are you Type 2 which is often controllable with diet and exercise, or are you Type 1, which requires you to take injections of one form or another of Insulin?

The answers you seek are completely dependent on the above question.

If you are presently under a doctor's care and taking daily injections of insulin, no one here is able to give you a SAFE and VALID answer, and playing around with your diet without input from your doctor will play hell with your stability and dosage of injectable insulin.

PLEASE go talk with your doctor before trying something off the internet... your body will thank you!

Don (Type 2 reasonably well controlled)

edited for stupid error!

Here’s my $0.02 - I went vegan in October of 2016 for health reasons. I still wear leather shoes, belts, etc., but gave up eating all animal products. It’s been a bit of a challenge, but for me the results were worth it:

September, 2016
Weight- 384 pounds
Total cholesterol - 214
Triglycerides - 204
LDL - 121

February, 2018
Weight - 238 pounds
Total cholesterol - 122
Triglycerides - 85
LDL - 69

I’ve also been able to stop taking 90% of the prescription meds I was taking in 2016.

For me, the real key was giving up all sugar and salt for the first six weeks. This purged my palate and really let me taste my food after a lifetime (50+ years) of eating out and over-salted, over-sweetened processed food.

I’ve been type 2 for nearly 30 years and have had to take the maximum dosage of Metformin and insulin injections for several years. I’ve recently had to stop taking Metformin to protect my kidneys and insulin is not much help. My doctor and I have already talked about my situation. The first drug he prescribed to replace Metformin increased my risk of heart failure 27%. The next one caused some dizziness that resulted in a couple of hard falls. I’m running out of options. Yes, conventional wisdom says a low carb high protein diet is the way to go, but that Adkins diet wasn’t good for me.

Thanks JohnV for sharing your experience. I figured it would be a lot of work, but if fat is preventing the insulin from doing it’s job, I’m interested in giving it a try. It doesn’t bother me much if someone gets preachy about global warming or animal rights.

Well, I guess it’s time to see if the Plant Based diet will work for me. I recently bought a new BG meter and naturally I’ll watch my numbers like a hawk.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.

Good on you, Sportshooter.

I read the Forks over Knives book, and I seem to remember that they were most concerned with heart disease and cancer. They made the most noise about “reversing” heart disease. They most likely mentioned diabetes, but I do remember the main point was to reduce casein in your diet. The result would be better heart health and a drastic reduction in cancer risk.

I did the plan for a few months - the book The Engine 2 Diet will help with that. I lost about 25 pounds and felt great. However, it was (for me) very hard to follow the program while on the road.

Recently I started a ketogenic plan, and have had great success with it. Lost another 25 pounds and much easier for me to maintain while traveling.

Bottom line - the traditional American diet of high fat, high carbs is just flat awful for us.

But everyone responds differently to to different plans. Find what works for you and go with that.

Good luck!

Sportshooter, email me if you want more information on eating a plant based diet. I have tons of books and DVD's. Like JohnV and Security Geek, my numbers improved too on a whole food plant based diet. I eat mainly fruits, vegetables, brown rice, sweet potatoes, beans, and lots of salads. It sounds boring but once you start feeling better and your numbers change, you'll appreciate the change.

Also, I see you are in Texas. Read the Engine 2 books by Rip Esselstyn. He was a firefighter in Austin, Texas that convinced his firehouse into going plant based. Rip is the son of Caldwell Esselstyn, the doctor in Forks Over Knives.

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Originally posted by CMH Sig:
Sportshooter, email me if you want more information on eating a plant based diet. I have tons of books and DVD's. Like JohnV and Security Geek, my numbers improved too on a whole food plant based diet. I eat mainly fruits, vegetables, brown rice, sweet potatoes, beans, and lots of salads. It sounds boring but once you start feeling better and your numbers change, you'll appreciate the change.

Also, I see you are in Texas. Read the Engine 2 books by Rip Esselstyn. He was a firefighter in Austin, Texas that convinced his firehouse into going plant based. Rip is the son of Caldwell Esselstyn, the doctor in Forks Over Knives.

Thanks for the tip. You can count on me checking that out.

So, I guess I’ll just have to become a recipe trying, progress checking, food logging and blood testing fool for the next 90 days. Surely this diet can’t be any harder to live on than that Adkins diet.

Typically, a heart-healthy diet is a diabetes-friend,y diet.

Stay away from simple carbs and processed foods as much as possible.

Lean meat is good. Too much fat can cause issues.

Check your levels to see what different foods do to you.

Fruits, well, check to see what they do. Bananna ans pineapple are high in sugar. Bagels have a LOT of cards and cause my levels to spike.

Fruit smoothies...no.

Drink a lot of water.

I have been dealing with the D for a while as well as am a mentor for the American Diabetes Association.