Recently went to buy a new car. Went to the Ford dealership and I must say, the experience was shitty. The sales guy was stupid, and disheveled. I test drove a bunch of sedans and was extremely underwhelmed with what they had to offer, especially for the price.

After about 5 hours, I left the dealership feeling a bit depressed. I remembered I also owned Ford stock (bought it for around $2 during the big crash)...which made me even more depressed.

After I left the Ford dealership, I went down the road to Mazda and purchased a sweet new Mazda3 Hatchback that night. Totally opposite experience from the Ford dealership. The Salesmen were professional and even had suits on. The sales area was free of annoying clutter (balloons, dumb signs, etc) and just showcased the vehicles.

The hell is anyone buying a sedan for anyways? My escape gets equal to most sedans in gas milage. Until a sedan pulls a solid 41 mpg and will hold 20 gallons, it aint any better than the 23 mpg and holds 40.

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:
The hell is anyone buying a sedan for anyways?

Waaaaayy better handling in a modern sedan than your Escape.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:
The hell is anyone buying a sedan for anyways?

Waaaaayy better handling in a modern sedan than your Escape.

Not to mention fun to drive. The auto manufacturers are setting us up for autonomous cubes.

They have already convinced most people that numbers on a chart are all that matter. Once that is complete an automobile is just an appliance which to most people, it already is.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:
The hell is anyone buying a sedan for anyways?

Waaaaayy better handling in a modern sedan than your Escape.

I'd have to disagree. Now I test drove several when I bought it, and this is a 14, so things have changed I would imagine, but the sedan, has always felt underpowered, and unreliable. To be fair the escape was what I could afford at the time, otherwise It would have be a 150 or explorer. They both drive better.


I do however think this plays into how you were raised/ taught to drive. I learned on a 92 GMC truck. Then practiced on a 03' Excursion. And took the test in a 01 Explorer. Which to me is why when I drove a malibu, it felt tiny, compact, and the turning and braking were way to sudden and flunge me forward a few times. I.E I hated driving it. I hated an ex girlfriends camero for similar reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:
The hell is anyone buying a sedan for anyways?

Waaaaayy better handling in a modern sedan than your Escape.

I'd have to disagree. Now I test drove several when I bought it, and this is a 14, so things have changed I would imagine, but the sedan, has always felt underpowered, and unreliable. To be fair the escape was what I could afford at the time, otherwise It would have be a 150 or explorer. They both drive better.


I do however think this plays into how you were raised/ taught to drive. I learned on a 92 GMC truck. Then practiced on a 03' Excursion. And took the test in a 01 Explorer. Which to me is why when I drove a malibu, it felt tiny, compact, and the turning and braking were way to sudden and flunge me forward a few times. I.E I hated driving it. I hated an ex girlfriends camero for similar reasons.

American cars in general are less reliable. As for handling, its physics. SUVs have a higher center of gravity. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

It has nothing to do with Japan vs Domestic.

I notice that you didn't answer my question. So exactly when will Toyota be discontinuing the Camry due to unsustainably low sales?

If it's just a drastic decline in ALL sedan sales as you claim, and it has NOTHING to do with the Toyota Camry killing Ford in the sedan market every year for the last 20 years, then we should also see Toyota discontinue the Camry within the next year, right?

Camry 2017 sales: 387,000
Fusion 2017 sales: 209,000
Accord 2017 sales: 322,600

However lets lend some perspective to those numbers by incorporating sales over time.

The Fusion sales were reflected in 15 since that was it's peak, 07 was the peak for the others, and the Fusion was only in its second year in 2007, using 07 figures for the Fusion would show it has gained sales over time, which it has not done.

Facts obtained (I know facts are not important in this discussion ) when determining market trends only personal attraction to a brand counts.

Peak Unit Sales Years:
Camry 2007 sales: 487,000 - down 100,000
Fusion 2015 sales: 306,000 - down 97,000
Accord 2007 sales: 414,000 - down 92,000

Taken annually Carsalesdatabase Link

2017 last years sales = 918,000 units
2007 Peak year sales = 1,207,000 Units
Overall Gain/Lose sales = -289,000 units

*even if you used Fords 2007 numbers the total market still shows an overall decline in sales for the past decade.

We can argue ad infinitum if Camry took sales from Ford, or if Fusion sales would be higher if Ford built a better car.

Historically Toyota has seen -100,000 units a year in sales since peak. A $2.7 billion a year reduction in overall Camry sales, based on a $27K per unit average price point. Ford is down 100,000 units as well, so basically the same numbers reduction.

Fords solution is to move to more profitable for them segments, Toyota doubled down and redesigned the Camry. Time will tell which was the right decision.